[OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Foundation and RF APRS new thread

Norm McMillan vk3xci at gmail.com
Sat Dec 21 17:38:03 AEDT 2019

Here we go.

IMHO, we're never going to run out of VKN*** callsigns, so lets utilise
what we have. I'm not sure we need to diff. between licence classes as the
info is available online. There are known failings with the old system, X**
and Z** tech calls being one, N** novice calls another. Funny they had the
same root; licence class disestablished and callsign into the general pool.
I like the idea of a callsign for life too.

Off soapbox

norm vk3xci

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 4:51 PM Graeme <graeme at abrona.com.au> wrote:

> Any formal solution needs to cater for VK0F.. through VK9F, not just
> dropping the 3 in VK3F.  Abbreviating by omitting the digit risks producing
> clashes locally.
> Graeme VK2HFG
> *From:* vk2tv
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 21, 2019 4:25 PM
> *To:* oz >> Australian APRS Users
> *Subject:* [OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Foundation and RF APRS new thread
> I'm a slow learner, ticked the wrong box again. Ho hum!
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Foundation and RF APRS new thread
> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 16:24:49 +1100
> From: vk2tv mailto:vk2tv at exemail.com.au
> To: Carlos PECO BERROCAL mailto:carlos.peco at gmail.com
> Hi Carlos,
> I got my information from here
> https://rsgb.org/main/operating/licensing-novs-visitors/international-prefixes/
> and here
> https://www.qrz.com/atlas  <https://www.qrz.com/atlas>(enter Panama in
> the search box)
> I did search for a full example of a 3F callsign but didn't find one.
> You could be right but I think that a permanent and sensible solution to
> the Foundation callsign debacle is the preferred route to take.
> I suggested VI and you suggest AX but in retrospect I see a problem with
> both of them in that if any amateur can use VI or AX for special occasions,
> logically the entire VI or AX blocks are already be "allocated".
> I've been messing about looking for a temporary solution for Jack and
> using an ALIAS instead of a callsign seems to tick all the boxes.
> 1. In an instance of xastir I used the ALIAS VKFTVZ as the station
> "callsign" . In the "Comment" box I put "vk2tv APRS test" (beacon text in
> other systems)
> 2. I created a passcode for the ALIAS, VKFTVZ and entered that in the
> interface control box of xastir
> 3. I was able to send my normal xastir instance on another machine a
> message and from that machine I sent a reply. All good.
> 4. aprs.fi shows the ALIAS and the beacon that was sent ... 2019-12-21
> 16:03:42 AEDT: *VKFTVZ <https://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VKFTVZ>*>APX215,TCPIP*,qAC,T2TAS:=3102.12S/15252.72E`vk2tv
> APRS test
> 5. The use of an ALIAS (maximum of 6 characters to met the AZ25 spec)
> should pass unimpeded through Igates. And FWIW, an ALIAS can have an SSID,
> just like a callsign can.
> On the surface this method seems to solve Jack's problem of using a
> callsign (ALIAS, actually) that resembles his real callsign, sends his
> real callsign in the beacon, satisfies aprs.fi,
> lets him appear on aprs.fi, and meet his licencing obligations.
> What more could he want except for the ACMA to sort of the callsign
> debacle they created?
> Ray vk2tv
> On 21/12/19 2:56 pm, Carlos PECO BERROCAL wrote:
> hi Ray,
> So I looked into the Panama callsigns... they all have a number after the
> prefix.
> So an alphanumeric combination like 3FABC does not match any amateur
> callsign anywhere in the world. Happy to be proven wrong.
> Foundation calls would be better using a different prefix, like AX. They
> would attract more attention from hams overseas.
> cheers
> Carlos VK1EA
> On Saturday, December 21, 2019, vk2tv <vk2tv at exemail.com.au> wrote:
>> Ticked the wrong box and sent this only to Norm.
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] Foundation and RF APRS new thread
>> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:49:08 +1100
>> From: vk2tv mailto:vk2tv at exemail.com.au
>> To: Norm McMillan mailto:vk3xci at gmail.com
>> Given the international use of APRS, aprs-is and sites like aprs.fi, a
>> 3F callsign has the potential to cause a problem. Would you like YOUR
>> callsign appearing on aprs.fi if you didn't initiate it? We shouldn't be
>> trying to fix one problem by creating other problems.
>> I don't see having the callsign as an object as problematic, per se, but
>> the aprs-is authorisation to allow a station to send an object is based on
>> the callsign (without SSID) that's set in the config file (certainly for
>> xastir and Direwolf). Whilst that config file "might" accept a callsign
>> longer than 6 characters, and so might aprs.is we eventually hit the
>> AX25 specification conflict that will probably drop an improperly formatted
>> source station address - a letter appearing in the numerical -only SSID
>> field -, or maybe corrupt the callsign therein.
>> Australian amateurs can use vk, vi or ax, under prescribed circumstances
>> so maybe something along the lines of an extension of the (say) VI prefix
>> to allow Foundation licencees to use it would be a simple solution - Jack
>> could become VI3JTS, as an example. Perhaps the use of a data friendly
>> callsign could be optional for stations who need it. I'm just tossing ideas
>> into the air, we need to start somewhere to resolve the mess.
>> Can anyone confirm/deny that the WIA is actually working with the ACMA on
>> a solution, or is everyone waiting for somebody else to start the ball
>> rolling? Just curious. If the ball isn't already rolling, maybe we from
>> this group should start its journey. Maybe Jack should contact his local
>> federal member of parliament, asking him to find out why the ACMA permitted
>> the use of data by Foundation licencees but kept a callsign structure that
>> prevents that happening in practice. Take it up with the
>> Anti-Discrimination Commissioner, there must be a disabled Foundation
>> licencee who wants to use Packet/APRS but can't because the callsign
>> structure discriminates against him/her. Play it for all it's worth. We
>> have both the power and the right to make a noise about this and we
>> shouldn't have to wait years for a result.
>> Soapbox safely stowed away ... for now:-)
>> Ray vk2tv
>> On 21/12/19 12:59 pm, Norm McMillan wrote:
>> Hmmmm,
>> looks like all the nF... prefixes are internationally allocated, is that
>> going to cause a problem?
>> The proper answer of course, is to get rid of the 4 letter suffix, the
>> numerical area id suffix, and have a "callsign for life"
>> Like that's going to happen!
>> For now, I'll tell users to use nFxxx and put a callsign in the comment
>> line. It's all we've got 'till someone tell me different.
>> norm vk3xci
>> norm vk3xci!
>> On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 11:34 AM Josh <vk2hff at vk2hff.ampr.org> wrote:
>>> Hi Norm,
>>> On 21/12/2019 10:30 am, Norm McMillan wrote:
>>> > Someone with more knowledge than I might like to comment on the
>>> > legality of both cases? I'm not an APRSdroid user so I don't know if
>>> > it's possible to put a comment with a callsign in APRSdroid.
>>> Yes, APRSdroid allows a custom comment but defaults to the aprsdroid URL
>>> if no comment is provided.
>>> Regarding legality, there is no requirement to identify yourself on
>>> every transmission.
>>> And your ID doesn't have to be sent via AX.25 - sending your full
>>> callsign via CW (or voice etc) once every 10 minutes would fulfill the
>>> requirement, providing it was sent on the same frequency as your APRS
>>> transmissions - not that I'd recommend this option.
>>> Including your callsign in your APRS beacon comment field would
>>> obviously also meet the requirement.  From ACMA's perspective your APRS
>>> object name does not have to match your callsign - that's just our
>>> convention for position beacons.
>>> >
>>> > Another question... would a 3F*** call be gated IS to RF? Guess it
>>> > depends on the software etc.
>>> >
>>> That comes down to each individual igate's configuration.
>>> As an example, mine won't gate any objects from IS to RF except for
>>> messages for nearby stations recently heard directly via RF, or WXSVR-AU
>>> alerts within my igate's area. The callsign makes no difference.
>>> IMO the best approach for F calls is to set their callsign field to
>>> nFxxx, and include their full callsign in the comment field.
>>> - Josh VK2HFF
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OZAPRS mailing list
>>> OZAPRS at aprs.net.au
>>> http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs
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