[OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Foundation and RF APRS new thread
vk2tv
vk2tv at exemail.com.au
Sun Dec 22 08:09:17 AEDT 2019
Thanks Norm.
I see that document was released just 3 weeks ago, and it seems to be a
great concept. I hope that any outcomes, especially for the Foundation
callsign debacle, aren't years away.
I wonder how many others, like me, hadn't considered the possibility of
ALL callsigns coming from the same pool? Interesting concept, and off
the top of my head I can't see anything wrong with it. Thanks for
thinking outside the box.
Ray vk2tv
On 21/12/19 5:38 pm, Norm McMillan wrote:
> Here we go.
> https://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2019/20191130-20/index.php
>
> IMHO, we're never going to run out of VKN*** callsigns, so lets
> utilise what we have. I'm not sure we need to diff. between licence
> classes as the info is available online. There are known failings with
> the old system, X** and Z** tech calls being one, N** novice calls
> another. Funny they had the same root; licence class disestablished
> and callsign into the general pool. I like the idea of a callsign for
> life too.
>
> Off soapbox
>
> norm vk3xci
>
> On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 4:51 PM Graeme <graeme at abrona.com.au
> <mailto:graeme at abrona.com.au>> wrote:
>
> Any formal solution needs to cater for VK0F.. through VK9F, not
> just dropping the 3 in VK3F. Abbreviating by omitting the digit
> risks producing clashes locally.
> Graeme VK2HFG
> *From:* vk2tv
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 21, 2019 4:25 PM
> *To:* oz >> Australian APRS Users
> *Subject:* [OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Foundation and RF APRS new
> thread
> I'm a slow learner, ticked the wrong box again. Ho hum!
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Foundation and RF APRS new thread
> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 16:24:49 +1100
> From: vk2tv mailto:vk2tv at exemail.com.au
> To: Carlos PECO BERROCAL mailto:carlos.peco at gmail.com
>
>
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> I got my information from here
> https://rsgb.org/main/operating/licensing-novs-visitors/international-prefixes/
>
> and here
> https://www.qrz.com/atlas <https://www.qrz.com/atlas>(enter Panama
> in the search box)
>
> I did search for a full example of a 3F callsign but didn't find one.
>
> You could be right but I think that a permanent and sensible
> solution to the Foundation callsign debacle is the preferred route
> to take.
>
> I suggested VI and you suggest AX but in retrospect I see a
> problem with both of them in that if any amateur can use VI or AX
> for special occasions, logically the entire VI or AX blocks are
> already be "allocated".
>
> I've been messing about looking for a temporary solution for Jack
> and using an ALIAS instead of a callsign seems to tick all the boxes.
>
> 1. In an instance of xastir I used the ALIAS VKFTVZ as the station
> "callsign" . In the "Comment" box I put "vk2tv APRS test" (beacon
> text in other systems)
> 2. I created a passcode for the ALIAS, VKFTVZ and entered that in
> the interface control box of xastir
> 3. I was able to send my normal xastir instance on another machine
> a message and from that machine I sent a reply. All good.
> 4. aprs.fi <http://aprs.fi> shows the ALIAS and the beacon that
> was sent ... 2019-12-21 16:03:42 AEDT:*VKFTVZ
> <https://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VKFTVZ>*>APX215,TCPIP*,qAC,T2TAS:=3102.12S/15252.72E`vk2tv
> APRS test
> 5. The use of an ALIAS (maximum of 6 characters to met the AZ25
> spec) should pass unimpeded through Igates. And FWIW, an ALIAS can
> have an SSID, just like a callsign can.
>
> On the surface this method seems to solve Jack's problem of using
> a callsign (ALIAS, actually) that resembles his real callsign,
> sends his real callsign in the beacon, satisfies aprs.fi
> <http://aprs.fi>,
> lets him appear on aprs.fi <http://aprs.fi>, and meet his
> licencing obligations.
>
> What more could he want except for the ACMA to sort of the
> callsign debacle they created?
>
> HTH
> Ray vk2tv
>
>
> On 21/12/19 2:56 pm, Carlos PECO BERROCAL wrote:
>> hi Ray,
>> So I looked into the Panama callsigns... they all have a number
>> after the prefix.
>> So an alphanumeric combination like 3FABC does not match any
>> amateur callsign anywhere in the world. Happy to be proven wrong.
>> Foundation calls would be better using a different prefix, like
>> AX. They would attract more attention from hams overseas.
>> cheers
>> Carlos VK1EA
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, December 21, 2019, vk2tv <vk2tv at exemail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Ticked the wrong box and sent this only to Norm.
>>
>>
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] Foundation and RF APRS new thread
>> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:49:08 +1100
>> From: vk2tv mailto:vk2tv at exemail.com.au
>> To: Norm McMillan mailto:vk3xci at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Given the international use of APRS, aprs-is and sites like
>> aprs.fi <http://aprs.fi>, a 3F callsign has the potential to
>> cause a problem. Would you like YOUR callsign appearing on
>> aprs.fi <http://aprs.fi> if you didn't initiate it? We
>> shouldn't be trying to fix one problem by creating other
>> problems.
>>
>> I don't see having the callsign as an object as problematic,
>> per se, but the aprs-is authorisation to allow a station to
>> send an object is based on the callsign (without SSID) that's
>> set in the config file (certainly for xastir and Direwolf).
>> Whilst that config file "might" accept a callsign longer than
>> 6 characters, and so might aprs.is <http://aprs.is> we
>> eventually hit the AX25 specification conflict that will
>> probably drop an improperly formatted source station address
>> - a letter appearing in the numerical -only SSID field -, or
>> maybe corrupt the callsign therein.
>>
>> Australian amateurs can use vk, vi or ax, under prescribed
>> circumstances so maybe something along the lines of an
>> extension of the (say) VI prefix to allow Foundation
>> licencees to use it would be a simple solution - Jack could
>> become VI3JTS, as an example. Perhaps the use of a data
>> friendly callsign could be optional for stations who need it.
>> I'm just tossing ideas into the air, we need to start
>> somewhere to resolve the mess.
>>
>> Can anyone confirm/deny that the WIA is actually working with
>> the ACMA on a solution, or is everyone waiting for somebody
>> else to start the ball rolling? Just curious. If the ball
>> isn't already rolling, maybe we from this group should start
>> its journey. Maybe Jack should contact his local federal
>> member of parliament, asking him to find out why the ACMA
>> permitted the use of data by Foundation licencees but kept a
>> callsign structure that prevents that happening in practice.
>> Take it up with the Anti-Discrimination Commissioner, there
>> must be a disabled Foundation licencee who wants to use
>> Packet/APRS but can't because the callsign structure
>> discriminates against him/her. Play it for all it's worth. We
>> have both the power and the right to make a noise about this
>> and we shouldn't have to wait years for a result.
>>
>> Soapbox safely stowed away ... for now:-)
>>
>> Ray vk2tv
>>
>> On 21/12/19 12:59 pm, Norm McMillan wrote:
>>> Hmmmm,
>>> looks like all the nF... prefixes are internationally
>>> allocated, is that going to cause a problem?
>>> The proper answer of course, is to get rid of the 4 letter
>>> suffix, the numerical area id suffix, and have a "callsign
>>> for life"
>>> Like that's going to happen!
>>> For now, I'll tell users to use nFxxx and put a callsign in
>>> the comment line. It's all we've got 'till someone tell me
>>> different.
>>> norm vk3xci
>>> norm vk3xci!
>>> On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 11:34 AM Josh
>>> <vk2hff at vk2hff.ampr.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Norm,
>>>
>>> On 21/12/2019 10:30 am, Norm McMillan wrote:
>>> > Someone with more knowledge than I might like to
>>> comment on the
>>> > legality of both cases? I'm not an APRSdroid user so I
>>> don't know if
>>> > it's possible to put a comment with a callsign in
>>> APRSdroid.
>>> Yes, APRSdroid allows a custom comment but defaults to
>>> the aprsdroid URL
>>> if no comment is provided.
>>> Regarding legality, there is no requirement to identify
>>> yourself on
>>> every transmission.
>>> And your ID doesn't have to be sent via AX.25 - sending
>>> your full
>>> callsign via CW (or voice etc) once every 10 minutes
>>> would fulfill the
>>> requirement, providing it was sent on the same frequency
>>> as your APRS
>>> transmissions - not that I'd recommend this option.
>>>
>>> Including your callsign in your APRS beacon comment
>>> field would
>>> obviously also meet the requirement. From ACMA's
>>> perspective your APRS
>>> object name does not have to match your callsign -
>>> that's just our
>>> convention for position beacons.
>>> >
>>> > Another question... would a 3F*** call be gated IS to
>>> RF? Guess it
>>> > depends on the software etc.
>>> >
>>> That comes down to each individual igate's configuration.
>>> As an example, mine won't gate any objects from IS to RF
>>> except for
>>> messages for nearby stations recently heard directly via
>>> RF, or WXSVR-AU
>>> alerts within my igate's area. The callsign makes no
>>> difference.
>>>
>>> IMO the best approach for F calls is to set their
>>> callsign field to
>>> nFxxx, and include their full callsign in the comment field.
>>>
>>> - Josh VK2HFF
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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