[OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Foundation and RF APRS new thread

Sat Dec 21 16:51:38 AEDT 2019

Any formal solution needs to cater for VK0F.. through VK9F, not just dropping the 3 in VK3F.  Abbreviating by omitting the digit risks producing clashes locally.

Graeme VK2HFG

From: vk2tv 
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 4:25 PM
To: oz >> Australian APRS Users 
Subject: [OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Foundation and RF APRS new thread

I'm a slow learner, ticked the wrong box again. Ho hum!

-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject:  Re: [OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Foundation and RF APRS new thread 
      Date:  Sat, 21 Dec 2019 16:24:49 +1100 
      From:  vk2tv mailto:vk2tv at exemail.com.au 
      To:  Carlos PECO BERROCAL mailto:carlos.peco at gmail.com 

Hi Carlos,

I got my information from here 
https://rsgb.org/main/operating/licensing-novs-visitors/international-prefixes/

and here 
https://www.qrz.com/atlas  (enter Panama in the search box)

I did search for a full example of a 3F callsign but didn't find one.

You could be right but I think that a permanent and sensible solution to the Foundation callsign debacle is the preferred route to take.  

I suggested VI and you suggest AX but in retrospect I see a problem with both of them in that if any amateur can use VI or AX for special occasions, logically the entire VI or AX blocks are already be "allocated". 

I've been messing about looking for a temporary solution for Jack and using an ALIAS instead of a callsign seems to tick all the boxes.

1. In an instance of xastir I used the ALIAS VKFTVZ as the station "callsign" . In the "Comment" box I put "vk2tv APRS test" (beacon text in other systems)
2. I created a passcode for the ALIAS, VKFTVZ and entered that in the interface control box of xastir
3. I was able to send my normal xastir instance on another machine a message and from that machine I sent a reply. All good.
4. aprs.fi shows the ALIAS and the beacon that was sent ... 2019-12-21 16:03:42 AEDT: VKFTVZ>APX215,TCPIP*,qAC,T2TAS:=3102.12S/15252.72E`vk2tv APRS test
5. The use of an ALIAS (maximum of 6 characters to met the AZ25 spec) should pass unimpeded through Igates. And FWIW, an ALIAS can have an SSID, just like a callsign can.

On the surface this method seems to solve Jack's problem of using a callsign (ALIAS, actually) that resembles his real callsign, sends his real callsign in the beacon, satisfies aprs.fi,
lets him appear on aprs.fi, and meet his licencing obligations. 

What more could he want except for the ACMA to sort of the callsign debacle they created?

HTH
Ray vk2tv

On 21/12/19 2:56 pm, Carlos PECO BERROCAL wrote:

  hi Ray, 

  So I looked into the Panama callsigns... they all have a number after the prefix.

  So an alphanumeric combination like 3FABC does not match any amateur callsign anywhere in the world. Happy to be proven wrong.

  Foundation calls would be better using a different prefix, like AX. They would attract more attention from hams overseas.

  cheers
  Carlos VK1EA

  On Saturday, December 21, 2019, vk2tv <vk2tv at exemail.com.au> wrote:

    Ticked the wrong box and sent this only to Norm.

    -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject:  Re: [OZAPRS] Foundation and RF APRS new thread 
          Date:  Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:49:08 +1100 
          From:  vk2tv mailto:vk2tv at exemail.com.au 
          To:  Norm McMillan mailto:vk3xci at gmail.com 

    Given the international use of APRS, aprs-is and sites like aprs.fi, a 3F callsign has the potential to cause a problem. Would you like YOUR callsign appearing on aprs.fi if you didn't initiate it? We shouldn't be trying to fix one problem by creating other problems.

    I don't see having the callsign as an object as problematic, per se, but the aprs-is authorisation to allow a station to send an object is based on the callsign (without SSID) that's set in the config file (certainly for xastir and Direwolf). Whilst that config file "might" accept a callsign longer than 6 characters, and so might aprs.is we eventually hit the AX25 specification conflict that will probably drop an improperly formatted source station address - a letter appearing in the numerical -only SSID field -, or maybe corrupt the callsign therein. 

    Australian amateurs can use vk, vi or ax, under prescribed circumstances so maybe something along the lines of an extension of the (say) VI prefix to allow Foundation licencees to use it would be a simple solution - Jack could become VI3JTS, as an example. Perhaps the use of a data friendly callsign could be optional for stations who need it. I'm just tossing ideas into the air, we need to start somewhere to resolve the mess.

    Can anyone confirm/deny that the WIA is actually working with the ACMA on a solution, or is everyone waiting for somebody else to start the ball rolling? Just curious. If the ball isn't already rolling, maybe we from this group should start its journey. Maybe Jack should contact his local federal member of parliament, asking him to find out why the ACMA permitted the use of data by Foundation licencees but kept a callsign structure that prevents that happening in practice. Take it up with the Anti-Discrimination Commissioner, there must be a disabled Foundation licencee who wants to use Packet/APRS but can't because the callsign structure discriminates against him/her. Play it for all it's worth. We have both the power and the right to make a noise about this and we shouldn't have to wait years for a result. 

    Soapbox safely stowed away ... for now:-)

    Ray vk2tv

    On 21/12/19 12:59 pm, Norm McMillan wrote:

      Hmmmm,
      looks like all the nF... prefixes are internationally allocated, is that going to cause a problem?
      The proper answer of course, is to get rid of the 4 letter suffix, the numerical area id suffix, and have a "callsign for life"
      Like that's going to happen!

      For now, I'll tell users to use nFxxx and put a callsign in the comment line. It's all we've got 'till someone tell me different.

      norm vk3xci

      norm vk3xci!

      On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 11:34 AM Josh <vk2hff at vk2hff.ampr.org> wrote:

        Hi Norm,

        On 21/12/2019 10:30 am, Norm McMillan wrote:
        > Someone with more knowledge than I might like to comment on the
        > legality of both cases? I'm not an APRSdroid user so I don't know if
        > it's possible to put a comment with a callsign in APRSdroid.
        Yes, APRSdroid allows a custom comment but defaults to the aprsdroid URL
        if no comment is provided.
        Regarding legality, there is no requirement to identify yourself on
        every transmission.
        And your ID doesn't have to be sent via AX.25 - sending your full
        callsign via CW (or voice etc) once every 10 minutes would fulfill the
        requirement, providing it was sent on the same frequency as your APRS
        transmissions - not that I'd recommend this option.

        Including your callsign in your APRS beacon comment field would
        obviously also meet the requirement.  From ACMA's perspective your APRS
        object name does not have to match your callsign - that's just our
        convention for position beacons.
        >
        > Another question... would a 3F*** call be gated IS to RF? Guess it
        > depends on the software etc.
        >
        That comes down to each individual igate's configuration.
        As an example, mine won't gate any objects from IS to RF except for
        messages for nearby stations recently heard directly via RF, or WXSVR-AU
        alerts within my igate's area. The callsign makes no difference.

        IMO the best approach for F calls is to set their callsign field to
        nFxxx, and include their full callsign in the comment field.

        - Josh VK2HFF

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