<div dir="ltr"><div>Here we go.</div><div><a href="https://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2019/20191130-20/index.php">https://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2019/20191130-20/index.php</a></div><div><br></div><div>IMHO, we're never going to run out of VKN*** callsigns, so lets utilise what we have. I'm not sure we need to diff. between licence classes as the info is available online. There are known failings with the old system, X** and Z** tech calls being one, N** novice calls another. Funny they had the same root; licence class disestablished and callsign into the general pool. I like the idea of a callsign for life too.</div><div><br></div><div>Off soapbox</div><div><br></div><div>norm vk3xci<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 4:51 PM Graeme <<a href="mailto:graeme@abrona.com.au">graeme@abrona.com.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri";color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>Any formal solution needs to cater for VK0F.. through VK9F, not just
dropping the 3 in VK3F. Abbreviating by omitting the digit risks producing
clashes locally.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Graeme VK2HFG</div>
<div style="font-size:small;text-decoration:none;font-family:"Calibri";font-weight:normal;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;display:inline">
<div style="font:10pt tahoma">
<div><font size="3" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div style="background:rgb(245,245,245) none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="vk2tv@exemail.com.au">vk2tv</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 21, 2019 4:25 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="ozaprs@aprs.net.au">oz >> Australian APRS
Users</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> [OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Foundation and RF APRS new
thread</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style="font-size:small;text-decoration:none;font-family:"Calibri";font-weight:normal;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;display:inline"><font face="Arial">I'm a slow learner, ticked the wrong box again. Ho hum!</font><br>
<div><br><br>-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table style="color:rgb(0,0,0)" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline" nowrap align="right">Subject: </th>
<td>Re: [OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Foundation and RF APRS new thread</td></tr>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline" nowrap align="right">Date: </th>
<td>Sat, 21 Dec 2019 16:24:49 +1100</td></tr>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline" nowrap align="right">From: </th>
<td>vk2tv <a>mailto:vk2tv@exemail.com.au</a></td></tr>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline" nowrap align="right">To: </th>
<td>Carlos PECO BERROCAL <a>mailto:carlos.peco@gmail.com</a></td></tr></tbody></table><br><br><font face="Arial">Hi Carlos,<br><br>I got my information from here </font><br><font face="Arial"><a href="https://rsgb.org/main/operating/licensing-novs-visitors/international-prefixes/" target="_blank">https://rsgb.org/main/operating/licensing-novs-visitors/international-prefixes/</a><br><br>and
here <br></font><font face="Arial"><a href="https://www.qrz.com/atlas" target="_blank">https://www.qrz.com/atlas </a>(enter Panama in the
search box)<br><br>I did search for a full example of a 3F callsign but didn't
find one.<br><br>You could be right but I think that a permanent and sensible
solution to the Foundation callsign debacle is the preferred route to
take. <br><br>I suggested VI and you suggest AX but in retrospect I see a
problem with both of them in that if any amateur can use VI or AX for special
occasions, logically the entire VI or AX blocks are already be "allocated".
<br><br>I've been messing about looking for a temporary solution for Jack and
using an ALIAS instead of a callsign seems to tick all the boxes.<br><br>1. In
an instance of xastir I used the ALIAS VKFTVZ as the station "callsign" . In the
"Comment" box I put "vk2tv APRS test" (beacon text in other systems)<br>2. I
created a passcode for the ALIAS, VKFTVZ and entered that in the interface
control box of xastir<br>3. I was able to send my normal xastir instance on
another machine a message and from that machine I sent a reply. All good.<br>4.
<a href="http://aprs.fi" target="_blank">aprs.fi</a> shows the ALIAS and the beacon that was sent ... </font><font face="Arial"><font size="+3"><span style="font-size:12px;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:nowrap;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">2019-12-21
16:03:42 AEDT:<span> </span></span><b style="box-sizing:border-box;font-size:12px;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:nowrap;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;font-weight:700;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><a style="box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(0,0,255);outline-style:none;background-color:transparent" href="https://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VKFTVZ" target="_blank">VKFTVZ</a></b></font><span style="font-size:12px;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:nowrap;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><font size="+1">>APX215,TCPIP*,qAC,T2TAS:=3102.12S/15252.72E`vk2tv APRS test<br>5.
The use of an ALIAS (maximum of 6 characters to met the AZ25 spec) should pass
unimpeded through Igates. And FWIW, an ALIAS can have an SSID, just like a
callsign can.<br></font><br><font size="+1">On the surface this method seems to
solve Jack's problem of using a callsign (ALIAS, actually) that resembles his
real callsign</font>, <font size="+1">sends his real callsign in the beacon,
satisfies <a href="http://aprs.fi" target="_blank">aprs.fi</a>,<br>lets him appear on <a href="http://aprs.fi" target="_blank">aprs.fi</a>, and meet his licencing
obligations. <br><br>What more could he want except for the ACMA to sort of the
callsign debacle they created?<br><br>HTH<br>Ray
vk2tv<br><br><br></font></span></font>
<div>On 21/12/19 2:56 pm, Carlos PECO BERROCAL
wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote type="cite">hi Ray,
<div> </div>
<div>So I looked into the Panama callsigns... they all have a number after the
prefix.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So an alphanumeric combination like 3FABC does not match any amateur
callsign anywhere in the world. Happy to be proven wrong.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Foundation calls would be better using a different prefix, like AX. They
would attract more attention from hams overseas.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>cheers</div>
<div>Carlos VK1EA</div>
<div><br><br>On Saturday, December 21, 2019, vk2tv <<a>vk2tv@exemail.com.au</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<div><font face="Arial">Ticked the wrong box and sent this only to
Norm.</font><br>
<div><br><br>-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table style="color:rgb(0,0,0)" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline" nowrap align="right">Subject: </th>
<td>Re: [OZAPRS] Foundation and RF APRS new thread</td></tr>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline" nowrap align="right">Date: </th>
<td>Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:49:08 +1100</td></tr>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline" nowrap align="right">From: </th>
<td>vk2tv <a>mailto:vk2tv@exemail.com.au</a></td></tr>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline" nowrap align="right">To: </th>
<td>Norm McMillan <a>mailto:vk3xci@gmail.com</a></td></tr></tbody></table><br><br><font face="Arial">Given the international use of APRS, aprs-is and sites like <a href="http://aprs.fi" target="_blank">aprs.fi</a>, a 3F
callsign has the potential to cause a problem. Would you like YOUR callsign
appearing on <a href="http://aprs.fi" target="_blank">aprs.fi</a> if you didn't initiate it? We shouldn't
be trying to fix one problem by creating other problems.<br><br>I don't see
having the callsign as an object as problematic, per se, but the aprs-is
authorisation to allow a station to send an object is based on the callsign
(without SSID) that's set in the config file (certainly for xastir and
Direwolf). Whilst that config file "might" accept a callsign longer than 6
characters, and so might <a href="http://aprs.is" target="_blank">aprs.is</a> we eventually hit the AX25 specification
conflict that will probably drop an improperly formatted source station
address - a letter appearing in the numerical -only SSID field -, or maybe
corrupt the callsign therein. <br><br></font>Australian amateurs can use vk,
vi or ax, under prescribed circumstances so maybe something along the lines
of an extension of the (say) VI prefix to allow Foundation licencees to use
it would be a simple solution - Jack could become VI3JTS, as an example.
Perhaps the use of a data friendly callsign could be optional for stations
who need it. I'm just tossing ideas into the air, we need to start somewhere
to resolve the mess.<br><br>Can anyone confirm/deny that the WIA is actually
working with the ACMA on a solution, or is everyone waiting for somebody
else to start the ball rolling? Just curious. If the ball isn't already
rolling, maybe we from this group should start its journey. Maybe Jack
should contact his local federal member of parliament, asking him to find
out why the ACMA permitted the use of data by Foundation licencees but kept
a callsign structure that prevents that happening in practice. Take it up
with the Anti-Discrimination Commissioner, there must be a disabled
Foundation licencee who wants to use Packet/APRS but can't because the
callsign structure discriminates against him/her. Play it for all it's
worth. We have both the power and the right to make a noise about this and
we shouldn't have to wait years for a result. <br><br>Soapbox safely stowed
away ... for now<span><span>:-)</span></span><br><br>Ray vk2tv<br><br>
<div>On 21/12/19 12:59 pm, Norm McMillan wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hmmmm,</div>
<div>looks like all the nF... prefixes are internationally allocated, is
that going to cause a problem?</div>
<div>The proper answer of course, is to get rid of the 4 letter suffix,
the numerical area id suffix, and have a "callsign for life"</div>
<div>Like that's going to happen!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>For now, I'll tell users to use nFxxx and put a callsign in the
comment line. It's all we've got 'till someone tell me different.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>norm vk3xci<br></div>
<div> </div>
<div>norm vk3xci!<br></div></div>
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 11:34 AM Josh <<a>vk2hff@vk2hff.ampr.org</a>>
wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">Hi
Norm,<br><br>On 21/12/2019 10:30 am, Norm McMillan wrote:<br>>
Someone with more knowledge than I might like to comment on the<br>>
legality of both cases? I'm not an APRSdroid user so I don't know
if<br>> it's possible to put a comment with a callsign in
APRSdroid.<br>Yes, APRSdroid allows a custom comment but defaults to the
aprsdroid URL<br>if no comment is provided.<br>Regarding legality, there
is no requirement to identify yourself on<br>every transmission.<br>And
your ID doesn't have to be sent via AX.25 - sending your
full<br>callsign via CW (or voice etc) once every 10 minutes would
fulfill the<br>requirement, providing it was sent on the same frequency
as your APRS<br>transmissions - not that I'd recommend this
option.<br><br>Including your callsign in your APRS beacon comment field
would<br>obviously also meet the requirement. From ACMA's
perspective your APRS<br>object name does not have to match your
callsign - that's just our<br>convention for position
beacons.<br>><br>> Another question... would a 3F*** call be gated
IS to RF? Guess it<br>> depends on the software etc.<br>><br>That
comes down to each individual igate's configuration.<br>As an example,
mine won't gate any objects from IS to RF except for<br>messages for
nearby stations recently heard directly via RF, or WXSVR-AU<br>alerts
within my igate's area. The callsign makes no difference.<br><br>IMO the
best approach for F calls is to set their callsign field to<br>nFxxx,
and include their full callsign in the comment field.<br><br>- Josh
VK2HFF<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>OZAPRS
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