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<font face="Arial">Thanks Norm.<br>
<br>
I see that document was released just 3 weeks ago, and it seems to
be a great concept. I hope that any outcomes, especially for the
Foundation callsign debacle, aren't years away.<br>
<br>
I wonder how many others, like me, hadn't considered the
possibility of ALL callsigns coming from the same pool?
Interesting concept, and off the top of my head I can't see
anything wrong with it. Thanks for thinking outside the box.<br>
<br>
Ray vk2tv<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/12/19 5:38 pm, Norm McMillan
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+dgg9p0sOv1nduS3Yg98zmnMqefKtrgR_TPFH3UhCN1=QPBtw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Here we go.</div>
<div><a
href="https://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2019/20191130-20/index.php"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2019/20191130-20/index.php</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>IMHO, we're never going to run out of VKN*** callsigns, so
lets utilise what we have. I'm not sure we need to diff.
between licence classes as the info is available online. There
are known failings with the old system, X** and Z** tech calls
being one, N** novice calls another. Funny they had the same
root; licence class disestablished and callsign into the
general pool. I like the idea of a callsign for life too.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Off soapbox</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>norm vk3xci<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 4:51
PM Graeme <<a href="mailto:graeme@abrona.com.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">graeme@abrona.com.au</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Calibri";color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>Any formal solution needs to cater for VK0F..
through VK9F, not just dropping the 3 in VK3F.
Abbreviating by omitting the digit risks producing
clashes locally.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Graeme VK2HFG</div>
<div
style="font-size:small;text-decoration:none;font-family:"Calibri";font-weight:normal;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;display:inline">
<div style="font:10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="background:rgb(245,245,245) none repeat
scroll 0% 0%">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="vk2tv@exemail.com.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">vk2tv</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 21, 2019 4:25
PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="ozaprs@aprs.net.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">oz >> Australian
APRS Users</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> [OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re:
Foundation and RF APRS new thread</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div
style="font-size:small;text-decoration:none;font-family:"Calibri";font-weight:normal;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;display:inline"><font
face="Arial">I'm a slow learner, ticked the wrong
box again. Ho hum!</font><br>
<div><br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table style="color:rgb(0,0,0)" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline" nowrap="nowrap"
align="right">Subject: </th>
<td>Re: [OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Foundation and RF
APRS new thread</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline" nowrap="nowrap"
align="right">Date: </th>
<td>Sat, 21 Dec 2019 16:24:49 +1100</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline" nowrap="nowrap"
align="right">From: </th>
<td>vk2tv <a moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:vk2tv@exemail.com.au</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline" nowrap="nowrap"
align="right">To: </th>
<td>Carlos PECO BERROCAL <a
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:carlos.peco@gmail.com</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<font face="Arial">Hi Carlos,<br>
<br>
I got my information from here </font><br>
<font face="Arial"><a
href="https://rsgb.org/main/operating/licensing-novs-visitors/international-prefixes/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://rsgb.org/main/operating/licensing-novs-visitors/international-prefixes/</a><br>
<br>
and here <br>
</font><font face="Arial"><a
href="https://www.qrz.com/atlas" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.qrz.com/atlas
</a>(enter Panama in the search box)<br>
<br>
I did search for a full example of a 3F callsign
but didn't find one.<br>
<br>
You could be right but I think that a permanent
and sensible solution to the Foundation callsign
debacle is the preferred route to take. <br>
<br>
I suggested VI and you suggest AX but in
retrospect I see a problem with both of them in
that if any amateur can use VI or AX for special
occasions, logically the entire VI or AX blocks
are already be "allocated". <br>
<br>
I've been messing about looking for a temporary
solution for Jack and using an ALIAS instead of a
callsign seems to tick all the boxes.<br>
<br>
1. In an instance of xastir I used the ALIAS
VKFTVZ as the station "callsign" . In the
"Comment" box I put "vk2tv APRS test" (beacon text
in other systems)<br>
2. I created a passcode for the ALIAS, VKFTVZ and
entered that in the interface control box of
xastir<br>
3. I was able to send my normal xastir instance on
another machine a message and from that machine I
sent a reply. All good.<br>
4. <a href="http://aprs.fi" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">aprs.fi</a> shows the
ALIAS and the beacon that was sent ... </font><font
face="Arial"><font size="+3"><span
style="font-size:12px;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:nowrap;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">2019-12-21
16:03:42 AEDT:<span> </span></span><b
style="box-sizing:border-box;font-size:12px;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:nowrap;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;font-weight:700;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><a
style="box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(0,0,255);outline-style:none;background-color:transparent"
href="https://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VKFTVZ" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">VKFTVZ</a></b></font><span
style="font-size:12px;font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:nowrap;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><font
size="+1">>APX215,TCPIP*,qAC,T2TAS:=3102.12S/15252.72E`vk2tv
APRS test<br>
5. The use of an ALIAS (maximum of 6
characters to met the AZ25 spec) should pass
unimpeded through Igates. And FWIW, an ALIAS
can have an SSID, just like a callsign can.<br>
</font><br>
<font size="+1">On the surface this method seems
to solve Jack's problem of using a callsign
(ALIAS, actually) that resembles his real
callsign</font>, <font size="+1">sends his
real callsign in the beacon, satisfies <a
href="http://aprs.fi" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">aprs.fi</a>,<br>
lets him appear on <a href="http://aprs.fi"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aprs.fi</a>,
and meet his licencing obligations. <br>
<br>
What more could he want except for the ACMA to
sort of the callsign debacle they created?<br>
<br>
HTH<br>
Ray vk2tv<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></font>
<div>On 21/12/19 2:56 pm, Carlos PECO BERROCAL
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">hi Ray,
<div> </div>
<div>So I looked into the Panama callsigns... they
all have a number after the prefix.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So an alphanumeric combination like 3FABC
does not match any amateur callsign anywhere in
the world. Happy to be proven wrong.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Foundation calls would be better using a
different prefix, like AX. They would attract
more attention from hams overseas.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>cheers</div>
<div>Carlos VK1EA</div>
<div><br>
<br>
On Saturday, December 21, 2019, vk2tv <<a
moz-do-not-send="true">vk2tv@exemail.com.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex">
<div><font face="Arial">Ticked the wrong box
and sent this only to Norm.</font><br>
<div><br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"
cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline"
nowrap="nowrap" align="right">Subject:
</th>
<td>Re: [OZAPRS] Foundation and RF
APRS new thread</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline"
nowrap="nowrap" align="right">Date:
</th>
<td>Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:49:08 +1100</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline"
nowrap="nowrap" align="right">From:
</th>
<td>vk2tv <a moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:vk2tv@exemail.com.au</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="baseline"
nowrap="nowrap" align="right">To:
</th>
<td>Norm McMillan <a
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:vk3xci@gmail.com</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<font face="Arial">Given the international
use of APRS, aprs-is and sites like <a
href="http://aprs.fi" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">aprs.fi</a>, a
3F callsign has the potential to cause a
problem. Would you like YOUR callsign
appearing on <a href="http://aprs.fi"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aprs.fi</a>
if you didn't initiate it? We shouldn't
be trying to fix one problem by creating
other problems.<br>
<br>
I don't see having the callsign as an
object as problematic, per se, but the
aprs-is authorisation to allow a station
to send an object is based on the
callsign (without SSID) that's set in
the config file (certainly for xastir
and Direwolf). Whilst that config file
"might" accept a callsign longer than 6
characters, and so might <a
href="http://aprs.is" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">aprs.is</a> we
eventually hit the AX25 specification
conflict that will probably drop an
improperly formatted source station
address - a letter appearing in the
numerical -only SSID field -, or maybe
corrupt the callsign therein. <br>
<br>
</font>Australian amateurs can use vk, vi
or ax, under prescribed circumstances so
maybe something along the lines of an
extension of the (say) VI prefix to allow
Foundation licencees to use it would be a
simple solution - Jack could become
VI3JTS, as an example. Perhaps the use of
a data friendly callsign could be optional
for stations who need it. I'm just tossing
ideas into the air, we need to start
somewhere to resolve the mess.<br>
<br>
Can anyone confirm/deny that the WIA is
actually working with the ACMA on a
solution, or is everyone waiting for
somebody else to start the ball rolling?
Just curious. If the ball isn't already
rolling, maybe we from this group should
start its journey. Maybe Jack should
contact his local federal member of
parliament, asking him to find out why the
ACMA permitted the use of data by
Foundation licencees but kept a callsign
structure that prevents that happening in
practice. Take it up with the
Anti-Discrimination Commissioner, there
must be a disabled Foundation licencee who
wants to use Packet/APRS but can't because
the callsign structure discriminates
against him/her. Play it for all it's
worth. We have both the power and the
right to make a noise about this and we
shouldn't have to wait years for a result.
<br>
<br>
Soapbox safely stowed away ... for now<span><span>:-)</span></span><br>
<br>
Ray vk2tv<br>
<br>
<div>On 21/12/19 12:59 pm, Norm McMillan
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hmmmm,</div>
<div>looks like all the nF... prefixes
are internationally allocated, is
that going to cause a problem?</div>
<div>The proper answer of course, is
to get rid of the 4 letter suffix,
the numerical area id suffix, and
have a "callsign for life"</div>
<div>Like that's going to happen!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>For now, I'll tell users to use
nFxxx and put a callsign in the
comment line. It's all we've got
'till someone tell me different.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>norm vk3xci<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>norm vk3xci!<br>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On
Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 11:34 AM Josh
<<a moz-do-not-send="true">vk2hff@vk2hff.ampr.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px
solid rgb(204,204,204);margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex">Hi Norm,<br>
<br>
On 21/12/2019 10:30 am, Norm
McMillan wrote:<br>
> Someone with more knowledge
than I might like to comment on the<br>
> legality of both cases? I'm not
an APRSdroid user so I don't know if<br>
> it's possible to put a comment
with a callsign in APRSdroid.<br>
Yes, APRSdroid allows a custom
comment but defaults to the
aprsdroid URL<br>
if no comment is provided.<br>
Regarding legality, there is no
requirement to identify yourself on<br>
every transmission.<br>
And your ID doesn't have to be sent
via AX.25 - sending your full<br>
callsign via CW (or voice etc) once
every 10 minutes would fulfill the<br>
requirement, providing it was sent
on the same frequency as your APRS<br>
transmissions - not that I'd
recommend this option.<br>
<br>
Including your callsign in your APRS
beacon comment field would<br>
obviously also meet the
requirement. From ACMA's
perspective your APRS<br>
object name does not have to match
your callsign - that's just our<br>
convention for position beacons.<br>
><br>
> Another question... would a
3F*** call be gated IS to RF? Guess
it<br>
> depends on the software etc.<br>
><br>
That comes down to each individual
igate's configuration.<br>
As an example, mine won't gate any
objects from IS to RF except for<br>
messages for nearby stations
recently heard directly via RF, or
WXSVR-AU<br>
alerts within my igate's area. The
callsign makes no difference.<br>
<br>
IMO the best approach for F calls is
to set their callsign field to<br>
nFxxx, and include their full
callsign in the comment field.<br>
<br>
- Josh VK2HFF<br>
<br>
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