[OZAPRS] on density and stomping

Tue Nov 7 12:44:40 AEDT 2017

cat * > /dev/null

LOL

From: OZAPRS [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au] On Behalf Of Scott Evans
Sent: Tuesday, 7 November 2017 11:29 AM
To: Australian APRS Users <ozaprs at aprs.net.au>
Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] on density and stomping

He Ray it's like...

Here's a joke about UDP.
Did you get it?
Did you get it?
Did you get it?
Did you get it?

On Tue., 7 Nov. 2017, 12:18 vk2tv, <vk2tv at exemail.com.au <mailto:vk2tv at exemail.com.au> > wrote:

All aprs is UI mode, there's no connected mode (with ACK,RR, RNR, etc) as we relate it to packet.

My restricted experience with aprs messaging is it's very much hit and miss but maybe that's a network fault rather than the aprs protocol. Still, I like the connected mode aspect of packet for confidence.

Ray vk2tv

On 07/11/17 10:58, Glen English VK1XX wrote:

agreed

Like for the person looking at their D700 to see what is going on.

They almost need a specific download channel. IE outbound only feed with
continuous regional position updates on it.

Surely all station to station messaging is connected mode ?

As a single UI message might as well be transmitted into a dummy load.
Or is there a protocol wrapped around UI ?

On 7/11/2017 10:52 AM, Matthew Cook wrote:

One of the downsides of multiple RX only iGates as has been found in
Adelaide recently is they only benefit internet based observers.

You also loose capabilities like two way messaging and create
confusion as to where users are with internet to RF gateways and delays.

There's been a few times recently where users have messaged me over
APRS in Adelaide that was gated to the net by a RX only iGate that was
then fired back onto RF, only for my reply to never be received.

A well designed Wide2-n network with good coverage and Wide1-n's to
over come terrain issues sounds like a good plan and a lot of fun.

73

Matthew
VK5ZM

On 7 November 2017 at 08:14, Glen English VK1XX
<glenlist at pacificmedia.com.au <mailto:glenlist at pacificmedia.com.au>   <mailto:glenlist at pacificmedia.com.au> <mailto:glenlist at pacificmedia.com.au>>
wrote:

    Hi Ray

    The stomping is a good point.  it's sort of like having a diversity
    receiver. Instead of an RF fade, we have channel contention. 
    Actually,
    in theory, multiple I-gate RX around town in a  dense area can provide
    an increase in traffic density capability, as the n signals will
    compete
    at different sites and some will win/loose  due to terrain
    shielding and
    also flat fading short delay multipath.

    Since too many I gates is no problem, Ginini will have Igate as
    well as
    RF forwarding. The 50kbps half duplex IP link will carry that no
    problem.

    Being open source code, we can add / modify as required. Isaacs
    will be
    identical HW eventually.

    glen

    On 7/11/2017 8:14 AM, vk2tv wrote:
    >
    > Glen
    >
    > I wasn't thinking of the digi only responding to its real
    callsign, it
    > will do that in any case AFAIK. I was thinking of the case where
    > (local) users specify the digis real callsign in their path to keep
    > their traffic "local".
    >
    > There's a lot of discussion about rgi and possible effects of
    outbound
    > traffic from it but we also need to consider the benefits of
    having a
    > well-sited W2-1 (say) Igate to respond to inbound traffic that might
    > have been stomped on at another system(s).
    >
    > Ray vk2tv
    >
    >
    >
    > On 06/11/17 20:18, Glen English VK1XX wrote:
    >> yeah, I would guess addr, WIDE1-1, VK1RGI-1 would do it
    >>
    >> another thing to change on the client .
    >>
    >> again, pity more cannot be gleaned by the digi beacon.
    >>
    >> alternatively, the system could have a list of locals...
    >>
    >> cheers
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> On 6/11/2017 6:36 PM, vk2tv wrote:
    >>> Doesn't the aprs specification provide for a station to direct
    traffic
    >>> via a specific digi callsign instead of the generic WIDEx-x to
    >>> minimise spread?
    >>>
    >>> Ray vk2tv
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> On 06/11/17 18:03, Glen English VK1XX wrote:
    >>>> All
    >>>>
    >>>> thanks Josh,Ian, Dom, Ray for the inputs, and asking me good
    questions
    >>>> for me to think about.
    >>>>
    >>>> I'll read a bit more into USA centric & written articles.
    >>>>
    >>>> I think I will filter 1RBM (local cbr) and 1RGI from duplicating
    >>>> everything. Or at least have a think about it. There really
    needs to be
    >>>> a setup for users if they really do want 1RGI is digipeat
    their 1RBM
    >>>> UIs. I guess that's what WIDE2-2 is for.
    >>>>
    >>>> Also got to think of the reverse case... RBM hearing things
    that I
    >>>> expect Ginini to hear and not . That of course can happen any
    time for a
    >>>> mobile station, long and short delay multipath abundant.
    >>>>
    >>>> In about 90% of canberra cases, 1RGI will hear whatever 1RBM
    hears no
    >>>> problem...
    >>>>
    >>>> There there is the providing redundancy issue for other
    paths.  Ether
    >>>> way, IP link and full control will make things flexible.
    >>>>
    >>>> There's a double edge sword with terminals being dumb /simple
    and say
    >>>> unable to update their paths based on whatever they are
    hearing- there
    >>>> would be usefulness I would have thought in having the digi
    beacon spit
    >>>> out some useful information for UI stations.... or maybe
    there has been
    >>>> thought and it didnt catch on.
    >>>>
    >>>> I'll put UHF on the second sound card/dire wolf TNC channel,
    that will
    >>>> be useful.
    >>>>
    >>>> -glen
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
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