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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>cat * > /dev/null<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>LOL<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> OZAPRS [mailto:ozaprs-bounces@aprs.net.au] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott Evans<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 7 November 2017 11:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Australian APRS Users <ozaprs@aprs.net.au><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OZAPRS] on density and stomping<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>He Ray it's like...<o:p></o:p></p><p>Here's a joke about UDP.<br>Did you get it?<br>Did you get it?<br>Did you get it?<br>Did you get it?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue., 7 Nov. 2017, 12:18 vk2tv, <<a href="mailto:vk2tv@exemail.com.au">vk2tv@exemail.com.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>All aprs is UI mode, there's no connected mode (with ACK,RR, RNR, etc) as we relate it to packet.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>My restricted experience with aprs messaging is it's very much hit and miss but maybe that's a network fault rather than the aprs protocol. Still, I like the connected mode aspect of packet for confidence.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Ray vk2tv</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 07/11/17 10:58, Glen English VK1XX wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>agreed<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Like for the person looking at their D700 to see what is going on.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>They almost need a specific download channel. IE outbound only feed with<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>continuous regional position updates on it.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Surely all station to station messaging is connected mode ?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>As a single UI message might as well be transmitted into a dummy load.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Or is there a protocol wrapped around UI ?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>On 7/11/2017 10:52 AM, Matthew Cook wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>One of the downsides of multiple RX only iGates as has been found in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Adelaide recently is they only benefit internet based observers.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>You also loose capabilities like two way messaging and create<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>confusion as to where users are with internet to RF gateways and delays.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>There's been a few times recently where users have messaged me over<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>APRS in Adelaide that was gated to the net by a RX only iGate that was<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>then fired back onto RF, only for my reply to never be received.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>A well designed Wide2-n network with good coverage and Wide1-n's to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>over come terrain issues sounds like a good plan and a lot of fun.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>73<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Matthew<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>VK5ZM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>On 7 November 2017 at 08:14, Glen English VK1XX<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><<a href="mailto:glenlist@pacificmedia.com.au" target="_blank">glenlist@pacificmedia.com.au</a> <a href="mailto:glenlist@pacificmedia.com.au" target="_blank"><mailto:glenlist@pacificmedia.com.au></a>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> Hi Ray<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> The stomping is a good point. it's sort of like having a diversity<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> receiver. Instead of an RF fade, we have channel contention. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> Actually,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> in theory, multiple I-gate RX around town in a dense area can provide<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> an increase in traffic density capability, as the n signals will<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> compete<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> at different sites and some will win/loose due to terrain<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> shielding and<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> also flat fading short delay multipath.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> Since too many I gates is no problem, Ginini will have Igate as<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> well as<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> RF forwarding. The 50kbps half duplex IP link will carry that no<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> problem.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> Being open source code, we can add / modify as required. Isaacs<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> will be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> identical HW eventually.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> glen<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> On 7/11/2017 8:14 AM, vk2tv wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> ><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > Glen<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> ><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > I wasn't thinking of the digi only responding to its real<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> callsign, it<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > will do that in any case AFAIK. I was thinking of the case where<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > (local) users specify the digis real callsign in their path to keep<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > their traffic "local".<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> ><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > There's a lot of discussion about rgi and possible effects of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> outbound<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > traffic from it but we also need to consider the benefits of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> having a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > well-sited W2-1 (say) Igate to respond to inbound traffic that might<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > have been stomped on at another system(s).<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> ><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > Ray vk2tv<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> ><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> ><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> ><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > On 06/11/17 20:18, Glen English VK1XX wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >> yeah, I would guess addr, WIDE1-1, VK1RGI-1 would do it<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >> another thing to change on the client .<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >> again, pity more cannot be gleaned by the digi beacon.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >> alternatively, the system could have a list of locals...<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >> cheers<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >> On 6/11/2017 6:36 PM, vk2tv wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>> Doesn't the aprs specification provide for a station to direct<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> traffic<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>> via a specific digi callsign instead of the generic WIDEx-x to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>> minimise spread?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>> Ray vk2tv<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>> On 06/11/17 18:03, Glen English VK1XX wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> All<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> thanks Josh,Ian, Dom, Ray for the inputs, and asking me good<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> questions<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> for me to think about.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> I'll read a bit more into USA centric & written articles.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> I think I will filter 1RBM (local cbr) and 1RGI from duplicating<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> everything. Or at least have a think about it. There really<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> needs to be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> a setup for users if they really do want 1RGI is digipeat<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> their 1RBM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> UIs. I guess that's what WIDE2-2 is for.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> Also got to think of the reverse case... RBM hearing things<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> that I<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> expect Ginini to hear and not . That of course can happen any<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> time for a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> mobile station, long and short delay multipath abundant.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> In about 90% of canberra cases, 1RGI will hear whatever 1RBM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> hears no<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> problem...<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> There there is the providing redundancy issue for other<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> paths. Ether<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> way, IP link and full control will make things flexible.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> There's a double edge sword with terminals being dumb /simple<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> and say<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> unable to update their paths based on whatever they are<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> hearing- there<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> would be usefulness I would have thought in having the digi<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> beacon spit<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> out some useful information for UI stations.... or maybe<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> there has been<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> thought and it didnt catch on.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> I'll put UHF on the second sound card/dire wolf TNC channel,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> that will<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> be useful.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> -glen<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> OZAPRS mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> <a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank">OZAPRS@aprs.net.au</a> <a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank"><mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>>> <a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank">http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank"><http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>> OZAPRS mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>> <a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank">OZAPRS@aprs.net.au</a> <a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank"><mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >>> <a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank">http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank"><http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >> OZAPRS mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >> <a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank">OZAPRS@aprs.net.au</a> <a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank"><mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> >> <a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank">http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank"><http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> ><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> ><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> ><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > OZAPRS mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > <a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank">OZAPRS@aprs.net.au</a> <a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank"><mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> > <a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank">http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank"><http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> OZAPRS mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank">OZAPRS@aprs.net.au</a> <a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank"><mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank">http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank"><http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>OZAPRS mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank">OZAPRS@aprs.net.au</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank">http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>OZAPRS mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank">OZAPRS@aprs.net.au</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank">http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>OZAPRS mailing list<br><a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank">OZAPRS@aprs.net.au</a><br><a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank">http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></body></html>