[OZAPRS] European v USnewparadigmand pathlimiting +confusion....

Fri Nov 10 19:30:55 EST 2006

Hi Andrew,

When travelling down the west coast, south of Perth, it would be nice to
have a total of 3 WIDE digi's to ensure reliable reception into a reliable
igate, from a mobile anywhere south of Bunbury (or more accurately, south
of
Binningup).  Hence the "APRS v WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2" suggestion.

At the moment, "APRS v WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1" (ie, a max of two digi hops) would
probably work, most of the time...  but a mobile doing something
interesting
(like driving to Margaret River) would not appear on people's D-700 or on
UI-VIEW in Perth.  You would however, _probably_ be able to see them (via
the igate) on the internet...  which is OK for people that prefer to
experience APRS via a web browser, rather than as a mainly RF-centric
experience.

For areas that want to clamp it to a maximum of two digi hops, why not do
the following:
1.  Let mobiles use the guideline of "APRS v WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2";
2.  Add "WIDE2-2" to the UIDIGI list, so that is treated the same 
    as WIDE7-7, etc...  that is, callsign substituted and no further hops

In other words, it appears easy for paths to be truncated in the network,
to
suit local needs...  but of course it's pretty hard to expand a user's
path
to be longer, for the more remote areas (where long paths are needed).

Regards,

Chris
vk6kch

-----Original Message-----
From: ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au] On
Behalf Of Andrew McDade
Sent: Friday, 10 November 2006 5:38 AM
To: Tony Hunt; VK / ZL APRS Users
Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] European v USnewparadigmand pathlimiting
+confusion....

I guess the question we need to ask, is whether 2 hops will allow ALL aprs

stations within Australia to reach an Igate reliably.

 If we have a situation where all stations can hit an Igate in 2 hops or 
less then well and good, WIDE2-2 is definitely the way to go. But if there

are still some areas that require 3 hops to achieve this, then where are
we 
with regards to a standard, default, documentable, promotable Nation Wide 
config for general APRS users.

I would hate to see a situation where we've got different default configs 
for different areas ie. WIDE2-2 for some areas and WIDE3-3 for others. I 
think this would be a regressive step.

So the question again , are there any areas within Australia that require
3 
( or more ) hops to reliably access an Igate ?

Regards .. Andrew .. VK5EX

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Hunt" <wavetel at bigpond.com>
To: <ozaprs at aprs.net.au>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] European v USnewparadigmand pathlimiting 
+confusion....

> Whats this idea I see of WIDE3-3 for home stations?? Currently we
recomend
> and use predominantly WIDE2-2 in Adelaide .. If we use WIDE3-3 then we 
> will
> cross the border to Mildura and Ouyen .. Is there any need for this many
> hops if all satations are within 2 hops of an Igate ?? WIDE3-3 will just
> increase the amount of traffic in our situation and likely insure alot
of
> VK3 traffic right through to Pt Linclon instead of just the occasional
bit
> here and there..
>
> Or are we going to recomend WIDE3-3 and then Trap the last hop in the 
> digis
> which is one approach..
>
> Ive seen this WIDE3-3 mentioned a couple of times now and thought it
must
> have been a typo at first ..
>
> Also 50 stations within 50miles of Adelaide.. I concur with Terry.. We 
> must
> be on a different map or planet to Bob .. Our Igate shows about 15
locals
> presently which is about normal
> http://121.44.67.103:14501/
> There are 23 VK5s currently listed on my Client here some of which are
via
> the Igate and not on RF..
>
> There are about 40 listed here but about 1/2 of them are over a day old 
> with
> no recent posits.
> http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?vk5*
>
> 50 Stations!! I gota to see that .. Talk about rush hour in Adelaide..
We
> are just an oversized country town here and pleased to be that way..
>
> Melbourne is the traffic worry on 2m APRS from what Ive experienced..
>
> Tony  Hunt  VK5AH
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> Your thoughts Richard 3JFK too please.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ron
>>
>> On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 11:06 +0800, Chris Hill wrote:
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > May I suggest the following "KISS" outcome for APRS in VK:
>> >
>> >
>> > 1.  Mobiles set path to "APRS v WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2"
>> >
>> > 2.  Home users set path to "APRS v WIDE3-3"
>> >
>
> Bob Said
>
>> Boy was I wrong.  I just zoomed on the first call I saw and
>> found that even Adelade is probably just about optimally loaded
>> and cannot afford much coming in from say Melbourne without
>> having some impact on throughput.  I see 50 stations within 50
>> miles of Adelade and that is about as high as you want to go
>> without losing reliability for small trackers.
>>
>> Then I zoomed in on Melbourne and see that it is as dense as
>> some of our highest density cities in the USA!  We use WIDE2-2
>> in those areas...
>> (see MAP on http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/fix14439.html
>>
>> Seeing these maps, I now am convinced that you are on the right
>> track to implement the New-N paradigm measures to help improve
>> the reliability of local area APRS.  And since these population
>> densities seem quite well focused with big gaps inbetween, then
>> it does make sense to limit the WIDEn-N hops so that mobiles in
>> one area are not QRMING long distances away to the other
>> areas...
>>
>> Great work!
>> Bob, Wb4APR
>>
>
>
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