[OZAPRS] On possibilities with short HF whips

vk2tv vk2tv at exemail.com.au
Sat Dec 9 08:01:56 AEDT 2017


Glen,

Being Brisbane it would have been 25kv, they never had a 1500V system 
although that voltage was discussed on two occasions but never adopted.

Ray vk2tv

On 08/12/17 19:18, Glen English VK1XX wrote:
> Ian was it 1500V overhead, or the now days 25kVAC ?
>
>
> On 8/12/2017 6:32 PM, Ian Bennett wrote:
>> I remember back in the 80's when I was in uniform and in Brisbane, a 
>> radio vehicle drove over the railway line near Enoggera with the HF 
>> whip still up. Made a BIG flash (apparently), blew a tyre, shutdown 
>> the train network for an hour or so and welded the 106 to it's mount.
>> I have two HF whips mounted on the bullbar of my 100 Series; my home 
>> made APRS antenna is just shy of 2m long (that was the length of the 
>> donor antenna that I dismantled) and is 3150(ish) mm floor to tip. I 
>> haven't had any dramas like the one mentioned above however I tie 
>> them back when negotiating "tight" spaces.
>> Will be a different story when we get our truck based motorhome but I 
>> have a cunning plan for that ;-)
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> On 08/12/17 17:39, Mathew McKernan wrote:
>>> I did similar with a Codan autotune on my Landcruiser, mounted above 
>>> the spare wheel carrier connected to my Codan 9323.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hit the line at the same spot... was waiting for smoke to fill the 
>>> cabin. I was pleased it didn't, but disappointed as it would have 
>>> been pretty impressive!
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>
>>> *From:* OZAPRS <ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au> on behalf of Glen 
>>> English VK1XX <glenlist at pacificmedia.com.au>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, 8 December 2017 5:26:29 PM
>>> *To:* ozaprs at aprs.net.au
>>> *Subject:* Re: [OZAPRS] On possibilities with short HF whips
>>> what are the recommendations and user practical limits for Melbourne ?
>>> (trams)
>>>
>>> Canberra here you'll  get into trouble ~ 4m
>>>
>>> I had the loop on my vehicle when I was driving in Melbourne a fair 
>>> bit....
>>>
>>> I once hit a tram line with my car roof antenna heatshrink insulated
>>> helical at Racecourse Road, Kensington... it made a huge pop in the
>>> receiver but otherwise no damage...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/12/2017 3:07 PM, Matthew Cook wrote:
>>>> This is also worth considering when looking at larger HF whips.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/business-industry/heavy-vehicles/road-access/restricted-access-vehicles/4-6m-high.html 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Each state has their own variations to the above, nationally 
>>>> un-restricted is 4.3m.
>>>>
>>>> 73
>>>>
>>>> Matthew
>>>> VK5ZM
>>>>
>>>> On 8 December 2017 at 14:03, Graeme <graeme at abrona.com.au 
>>>> <mailto:graeme at abrona.com.au>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      Thanks Glen.
>>>>
>>>>      Obviously my decision against buying a 2.2m centre loaded 40m 
>>>> whip
>>>>      because it would bend in the wind to its disadvantage in 
>>>> favour of
>>>>      a base loaded 1.4m whip wasn't a good one for multiple reasons.
>>>>
>>>>      Graeme 2HFG
>>>>
>>>>      -----Original Message----- From: Glen English VK1XX
>>>>      Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 10:19 AM
>>>>      To: ozaprs at aprs.net.au <mailto:ozaprs at aprs.net.au>
>>>>      Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] On possibilities with short HF whips
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Ran some NR predictions for 10 MHz for Brisbane Sydney, and 7 
>>>> and 3.5
>>>>
>>>>      and also some more details calcs on the Diamond 1.4m logn base
>>>>      loaded whip
>>>>
>>>>      turns out to be ~ 3% efficiency.
>>>>
>>>>      for the -15dBi TX terminal (1.4m base loaded whip with suboptimal
>>>>      loading Q)
>>>>
>>>>      yep,  in daytime, single hop 750-1200km , 100W into the antenna,
>>>>      expect
>>>>      around 15dB SNR for the 300 baud modem given a good receiver
>>>>      antenna and
>>>>      setup...with a modem like DireWolf that can cope with frequency
>>>>      variations. Be sure you know your radio frequency offset before
>>>>      you start.
>>>>
>>>>      with same length whip on 7 MHz, expect about 300-700km in
>>>>      daylight, but
>>>>      not much use outside that time and distance.
>>>>
>>>>      All of this means is for 300 baud FSK packet mode and 100W, the
>>>>      mode is
>>>>      unsuitable for low efficiency mobile antennas like base loaded 
>>>> short
>>>>      whips. (3% or less efficiency at 10 MHz, 2% at 7 MHz etc)
>>>>
>>>>      All this points to: (in my opinion) needing  a >=2.2m long whip
>>>>      instead
>>>>      of a 1.4m long whip.
>>>>      and  an antenna with a non base loaded structure (for 300 baud 
>>>> packet)
>>>>
>>>>      Get your antenna efficiency up to 10% at 7 MHz and then now you
>>>>      have an
>>>>      idea setup 24 hours, single freq .... 10 MHz almost good 
>>>> enough except
>>>>      for the wee hours 2am-sunrise when you will be asleep anyway.
>>>>
>>>>      So the lesson here, 300 baud packet needs decent antenna 
>>>> efficiencies
>>>>      mobile.
>>>>      hence the need for a mode that does about 6dB better
>>>>
>>>>      sure we can do alot better than 6dB, but 6dB better mode is 
>>>> what is
>>>>      required to work on the 1.4m base loaded whips.
>>>>
>>>>      Otherwise for 300 baud FSk packet, it needs to be teamed up with
>>>>      antenna
>>>>      efficiency >= 8%, implying  something with a feedpoint of 
>>>> around 2
>>>>      ohms
>>>>      Rr and not too lossy loading and matching... a whip of 2 meters
>>>>      tall  at
>>>>      10 MHz with continuous or 1/3 loaded structure. Base loaded 
>>>> structures
>>>>      are the worst !
>>>>
>>>>      The longer 1.8m long CB helical whips are a bit hard to find 
>>>> these
>>>>      days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      g
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      On 7/12/2017 6:36 PM, Glen English VK1XX wrote:
>>>>
>>>>          ok
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          On 7/12/2017 6:24 PM, vk4tec at tech-software.net
>>>>          <mailto:vk4tec at tech-software.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>              You are not telling me anything new
>>>>
>>>>              -----Original Message-----
>>>>              From: OZAPRS [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au
>>>>              <mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au>] On Behalf Of Glen
>>>>              English VK1XX
>>>>              Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 5:10 PM
>>>>              To: ozaprs at aprs.net.au <mailto:ozaprs at aprs.net.au>
>>>>              Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] Hf gates CD
>>>>
>>>>              base station 700-1500km away will hear you, but you wont
>>>>              hear a station 50km away.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>              On 7/12/2017 5:57 PM, vk4tec at tech-software.net
>>>>              <mailto:vk4tec at tech-software.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                  Go for a walk
>>>>
>>>>                  -----Original Message-----
>>>>                  From: OZAPRS [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au
>>>>                  <mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au>] On Behalf Of 
>>>> Glen
>>>>                  English VK1XX
>>>>                  Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 4:55 PM
>>>>                  To: ozaprs at aprs.net.au <mailto:ozaprs at aprs.net.au>
>>>>                  Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] Hf gates CD
>>>>
>>>>                  tracker might well have CD but:
>>>>
>>>>                  1) Consider that in the mobile, you wont hear any
>>>>                  stations less than the skip distance (unless they are
>>>>                  10km away) . The daytime skip distance might be
>>>>                  700km.... so anyone inside that distance you wont
>>>>                  hear  cause the ionosphere wont support it..it wont
>>>>                  support any angles higher than perhaps 45 degrees.
>>>>
>>>>                  The base station though will hear lots of
>>>>                  transmissions from lots of stations >700km  to 1500km
>>>>                  away, so there would be significant collision chance
>>>>                  if the position update is too often. Maybe 10 minutes
>>>>                  might be suitable. I dunno why people run..
>>>>
>>>>                  2) With a 5%  to 10%  efficiency mobile you wont hear
>>>>                  too much unless the propagation is optimal...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                  glen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                  On 7/12/2017 5:41 PM, vk4tec at tech-software.net
>>>>                  <mailto:vk4tec at tech-software.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                      Blind ?
>>>>
>>>>                      Tracker has CD
>>>>
>>>>                      -----Original Message-----
>>>>                      From: OZAPRS [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au
>>>> <mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au>] On Behalf Of
>>>>                      Glen English VK1XX
>>>>                      Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 2:46 PM
>>>>                      To: ozaprs at aprs.net.au 
>>>> <mailto:ozaprs at aprs.net.au>
>>>>                      Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] Hf gates
>>>>
>>>>                      but how does this matter?
>>>>
>>>>                      You will  be transmitting on a frequency blind
>>>>
>>>>                      there will be receivers you cannot control
>>>>
>>>>                      There will be any number of propagation modes you
>>>>                      cannot control...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                      On 7/12/2017 3:34 PM, Andrew Rich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                          Hi
>>>>
>>>>                          Can I get a list of hf gates on 10.147
>>>>
>>>>                          In my planning for the Xmas run
>>>>
>>>>                          Cheers
>>>>
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>>>
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