[OZAPRS] MICE usage

VK4UN vk4un at bigpond.com
Sat Sep 27 06:09:24 EST 2014


Curious question Ian  if you don't use -15 for HF what do you use on HF and
why

David  VK4UN

(((The fact that people are still using the -15 SSID
>     for HF is a case in point. Bob)))

-----Original Message-----
From: OZAPRS [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au] On Behalf Of Gary Stern
Sent: Friday, 26 September 2014 11:01 PM
To: Australian APRS Users
Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] MICE usage

There is also probably a lot of lack of thought around...

vk2kev is a home station, using WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 He is normally a single hop
to vk2mb-1, but due the the WIDE2-1 bounces around vk2rag-1 vk2mb-1 &
vk2amw-1

He is also acting as a digi so does he need the WIDE2-1 at all ?

I am not picking on anyone, but just using examples.

I do believe aprs is really suppose to be a two way affair (eg: 
messaging) but with so much un-neccessary traffic clogging the airways, the
current idea of only using rx-igates may make sense....

Gary
vk2zbb/vk2lv

On 26-Sep-14 14:25, Dom Dahl wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I notice this spot today VK2TSB-13. His position tends to jumps around 
> a bit as well. The difference here is VK2TSB-13 doesn't use MICE? So 
> his packets are uncompressed
>
> My guess is GPS isn't locked.
>
> 2014-09-26 03:52:36 UTC: *VK2TSB-13
> <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VK2TSB-13>*>APT311,VK2AMW-1*
> <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VK2AMW-1>,WIDE2-1,qAR,VK2NR-5
> <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VK2NR-5>:!3513.54S/14808.27ER000/00
> 0/A=000000
> 2014-09-26 03:52:57 UTC: *VK2TSB-13
> <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VK2TSB-13>*>APT311,VK2AMW-1*
> <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VK2AMW-1>,WIDE2-1,qAR,VK2NR-5
> <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VK2NR-5>:!3433.81S/15049.81ER000/00
> 0/A=000045 *[Location changes too fast (adaptive limit)]*
> 2014-09-26 03:54:36 UTC: *VK2TSB-13
> <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VK2TSB-13>*>APT311,VK2AMW-1*
> <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VK2AMW-1>,WIDE2-1,qAR,VK2NR-5
> <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VK2NR-5>:!3434.41S/15049.35ER169/02
> 0/A=000095
>
>
> 73
>
> Dom
> VK2HJ
>
> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:02 AM, Ian Bennett <ibennett at tpg.com.au 
> <mailto:ibennett at tpg.com.au>> wrote:
>
>     All,
>              My turn.....
>              I too don't fully understand what MIC-E is (apart from it
>     is a compression method) however in the
>     doco I've read, they recommend using it unless there is a specific
>     reason not to. They don't mention
>     what a "specific reason" is though.
>              Whilst on the subject, the documentation available is
>     terrible. The term "documentation" is used
>     loosely here since the information I've found is more a collection
>     of thoughts. Manufacturers of
>     commercial trackers have to shoulder most of the responsibility here
>     as this is what most people
>     will use.
>              I had a cackle when I read the comment "Hams doing what
>     they want as individuals" as I whole
>     heartedly agree. The fact that people are still using the -15 SSID
>     for HF is a case in point. Bob
>     took this out of the "RFC" years ago. Still, these are only
>     guidelines anyway and I never used the
>     -15 SSID as I had VHF APRS running at the same time. Having two
>     SSID's coming from the same vehicle
>     would have been very confusing for anyone tracking us.
>              So, why do I use APRS?? It is what attracted me into
>     Amateur Radio in the first place. My wife and
>     I travel a fair bit (not as much as I would like though!!) into
>     remote areas of the country and APRS
>     allows family and friends to see where we are. I also use PSKMail
>     (another culprit for terrible
>     documentation) for email and to post updates to trip blogs when out
>     of mobile phone range.
>              When back at the coal face, we only use one vehicle and
>     APRS allows me to see where she is so I can
>     meet her as she arrives to pick me up.
>              I've even had turn-by-turn guidance over the radio by
>     another amateur when I was going to his place
>     (I missed a turn so he guided me in!!)
>              It is also handy when visiting family and friends as they
>     know when to put the kettle on ;-)
>              I think the WIDE-N paradigm is a good compromise from an
>     all knowing intelligent routed network.
>     What needs to be considered is the location of the digis.
>              Given we as a community can't get the simple things right,
>     imagine what would happen if some sort
>     of intelligent routing protocol were implemented into the APRS
>     network?? It is exactly this that
>     keeps me employed in the IT trade.
>
>     Ian
>     VK1IAN
>
>
>     On 26/09/14 01:22, Peter Richens wrote:
>      > Hi
>      >
>      > Part of the problem for someone like me.. as an example..
>      > I have not had anything to do with this in the past but want to
>     find out
>      > more.. problem is there seems to be little in the way of good
>     guides that
>      > don't conflict with someone else's version of the guide and I am
>     still in
>      > the dark as to what to use this for apart from tracking my
>     vehicle.. I have
>      > also loaded the app on my Android phone and while it's fun to
>     play with I am
>      > still a little miffed as to what the real world application for
>     this is..
>      > I have been a Licensed Amateur since around 1986 and had my full
>     licence
>      > since 1988, have played with Packet Radio for years until I moved
to
>      > Brisbane and life just got too hectic then the internet basically
>     took over
>      > and sending packets at 1200baud just seemed so painful..
>      >
>      > I want to get my teeth into something and this among options
>     available
>      > seemed like a fun thing to play with but how far do I go with it
>     and how do
>      > I actually progress..
>      >
>      > I did read something about a system being used for disaster
>     communications
>      > and seen to think this may have been it, something to do with
>     knowing what
>      > resources are around.. if that is the case how do we use it for
>     that..
>      >
>      > I am quite certain that this is not puzzling for just me, the VK2
>     Guy that
>      > is beaconing.. well that could just have been me as I think mine
>     is doing
>      > something similar, even though I thought it had been set to only
>     beacon when
>      > moved.. actually on that it would be nice if it beaconed more
>     regularly
>      > sometimes.. or maybe not!
>      >
>      > Then comes HF or rather long distance travel such as my recent
>     trip to Cape
>      > York, I am more than certain that there are not that many VHF
>     stations up
>      > that way except for Cairns and maybe Cooktown..
>      >
>      > Regards
>      > Peter Richens - VK4FSD
>      > River City 4WD Club - Past President 2010 - 2014
>      > Sent from my Thumping huge Laptop
>      >
>      >
>      > -----Original Message-----
>      > From: OZAPRS [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au
>     <mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au>] On Behalf Of Justin Albury
>      > Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2014 9:54 PM
>      > To: Australian APRS Users
>      > Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] MICE usage
>      >
>      > So to remove a few of these issues we have done a new config and
>     alignment
>      > of a replacement VK2RHR-1 digi as a "hot swap" .... this will be
>     more of a
>      > fill digi rather than it current config.
>      >
>      > As soon as I get a chance I will visit Highrange and do the swap.
>      >
>      > Will keep you posted
>      >
>      > VK2HJA
>      >
>      >
>      > Justin Albury
>      > J Albury Communications
>      > justin at jacomms.com <mailto:justin at jacomms.com>
>      > 0417246791
>      >
>      > -----Original Message-----
>      > From: OZAPRS [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au
>     <mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au>] On Behalf Of Owen Duffy
>      > Sent: Thursday, 25 September 2014 6:01 PM
>      > To: Australian APRS Users
>      > Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] MICE usage
>      >
>      > Hello All,
>      >
>      > Some thoughts on the issue:
>      >
>      > I think the real issue here is the failure of source routing,
>     whether you
>      > give it some grand name like "New N Pardigm" or not.
>      >
>      > There are numerous examples that demonstrate that you cannot
>     depend on hams,
>      > whether they operate end stations or 'infrastructure' (digis,
>      > iGates) to "do the right thing'.
>      >
>      > Hams doing what they want as individuals were responsible for the
>     demise of
>      > the old 'packet network' before its time, and the same problem
>     occurs with
>      > APRS.
>      >
>      > So, if you drive outside Sydney or Melbourne for your annual
>     holidays, and
>      > you set your path for WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2, what is wrong with that?
>      >
>      > Well the issue is that the optimal path is not a property of the
>     mobile, but
>      > its location. In some places, a single hop is sufficient to have
>     a high
>      > probability of iGate submission, in others, three hops might only
>     moderate
>      > probability of iGate submission.
>      >
>      > Then there are the  effects of band openings (most mornings and
>     evenings in
>      > summer) where three hops may well get you from Sydney to Melbourne.
>      >
>      > A possible solution is intelligent network infrastructure that
>     controls
>      > packet routing, and limits the lifetime of packets. It could also
>     be used to
>      > block misguided stations operating outside of reasonable
>     parameters on the
>      > shared radio channel.
>      >
>      > That means finding a flexible routing platform for digis,
especially
>      > strategic digis that could be used to segment the network into
>     local areas
>      > as congestion dictates. Such a platform needs to be highly
>     interoperable,
>      > there is no room for a digi that does not decode some popular
>     trackers (eg
>      > the incompatibility between OT3 and Foxtrack/TT1).
>      >
>      > Sydney is a most interesting case study, it has essentially no
>     'local'
>      > digi and depends on three digis 40-60km out, and most packets
>     that originate
>      > or enter the area are repeated by all three digis so increasing
>     channel
>      > utilisation which in turn reduces the effectiveness of the
>     network for
>      > position reporting of mobile stations.
>      >
>      > A filtering dig in each of the three locations to block traffic
>     flow from
>      > north to south, and south to north could be very effective in
>     reducing
>      > channel utilisation whilst still support high rate of iGate
>     submission.
>      >
>      > The role of High Range and Mt Murray, both W2 digis located with
>     40km of
>      > each other deserve review as under the "New N Pardigm", almost
>     all packets
>      > originating in Sydney and the Illawarra carried by one will be
>     carried also
>      > by the other.
>      >
>      > At the same time, coverage of half of the M7 is patchier than a
>     lot of major
>      > highways outside of Sydney.
>      >
>      > I think it is the infrastructure that deserves attention rather
>     that trying
>      > to educate end users.
>      >
>      > Over...
>      >
>      > 73
>      > Owen
>      >
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