[OZAPRS] European v USnewparadigmand pathlimiting +confusion....

Fri Nov 10 09:39:08 EST 2006

Andrew

Answer - depends.  Are we talking:

reaching an Igate reliably, or
reaching a reliable Igate
reaching a reliable digi which reaches a reliable Igate

Current situation in Tas is (to the best of my knowledge) -
- The key digi RAA is off air due to a blown fuse (requires a bit of an
expedition to fix).
- The antenna on RAA which reliably reaches the south of Tas is in need of
attention by a qualified rigger (tower rules) so a temporary one is in use
(when
the fuse is not blown) which rarely reaches the southern digis
(propogation
dependant).
- There doesn't appear to be an Igate in the north east of Tas - depends
on
north west Igate being fed by RAA in the north east.
- There was an Igate in the east of the north west but has been off for
some
time, leaving a bit of a hole in the middle.
- There are still many areas in Tas which do not have affordable,
dependable
broadband access.
- There are lots of big hills and deep valleys in Tas.

There are some of us who would like to see whole of State coverage and are
working towards it.  Dick VK7DIK's new digi at RWC on the West Coast,
feeding
his Igate in the valley below has made a tremendous difference.  Wide
coverage
is going to need a variety of solutions, which may involve WIDE3-3

What I'm saying is, for all sorts of reasons, in Tas at least, there needs
to be
redundancy in the system.

Why not have words to the effect that WIDE2-2 is the default, with a note
that
special circumstances may dictate WIDE3-3, but this should only be applied
following consultation on requirements with the local System Operators
(and try
to maintain a list of who they are?).

To put things in a context, in April 2007 there will be several Amateurs
in APRS
equipped cars driving round the state working as volunteer comms Officials
on
Targa Tasmania.  This provides a tremendous opportunity to challenge
knowledge
and skills AND will provide a wonderful "spectator" event.  Beats watching
Fred
drive to work each morning and checking the temperature at Joe's place!
Could
even supply a map with all the Targa stages marked!

Cheers

Roger vk7arn

PS  Maybe one of you aeronautical types would like to fly round Tassie for
the
week with your airborne digi!
PPS I'm reliably informed that the article on APRS coverage of the
Tasmanian
Safari heat of the Australian Rally chamionship will be in November's A.R.
mag.
The interesting aspect is how we used the one frequency for voice and
APRS.

-----Original Message-----
From: ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au] On
Behalf
Of Andrew McDade
Sent: Friday, 10 November 2006 08:38
To: Tony Hunt; VK / ZL APRS Users
Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] European v USnewparadigmand pathlimiting
+confusion....

I guess the question we need to ask, is whether 2 hops will allow ALL aprs

stations within Australia to reach an Igate reliably.

 If we have a situation where all stations can hit an Igate in 2 hops or 
less then well and good, WIDE2-2 is definitely the way to go. But if there

are still some areas that require 3 hops to achieve this, then where are
we 
with regards to a standard, default, documentable, promotable Nation Wide 
config for general APRS users.

I would hate to see a situation where we've got different default configs 
for different areas ie. WIDE2-2 for some areas and WIDE3-3 for others. I 
think this would be a regressive step.

So the question again , are there any areas within Australia that require
3 
( or more ) hops to reliably access an Igate ?

Regards .. Andrew .. VK5EX

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Hunt" <wavetel at bigpond.com>
To: <ozaprs at aprs.net.au>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] European v USnewparadigmand pathlimiting 
+confusion....

> Whats this idea I see of WIDE3-3 for home stations?? Currently we 
> recomend and use predominantly WIDE2-2 in Adelaide .. If we use 
> WIDE3-3 then we will cross the border to Mildura and Ouyen .. Is there 
> any need for this many hops if all satations are within 2 hops of an 
> Igate ?? WIDE3-3 will just increase the amount of traffic in our 
> situation and likely insure alot of VK3 traffic right through to Pt 
> Linclon instead of just the occasional bit here and there..
>
> Or are we going to recomend WIDE3-3 and then Trap the last hop in the
> digis
> which is one approach..
>
> Ive seen this WIDE3-3 mentioned a couple of times now and thought it 
> must have been a typo at first ..
>
> Also 50 stations within 50miles of Adelaide.. I concur with Terry.. We
> must
> be on a different map or planet to Bob .. Our Igate shows about 15
locals
> presently which is about normal
> http://121.44.67.103:14501/
> There are 23 VK5s currently listed on my Client here some of which are
via
> the Igate and not on RF..
>
> There are about 40 listed here but about 1/2 of them are over a day 
> old
> with
> no recent posits.
> http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?vk5*
>
> 50 Stations!! I gota to see that .. Talk about rush hour in Adelaide.. 
> We are just an oversized country town here and pleased to be that 
> way..
>
> Melbourne is the traffic worry on 2m APRS from what Ive experienced..
>
> Tony  Hunt  VK5AH
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Your thoughts Richard 3JFK too please.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ron
>>
>> On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 11:06 +0800, Chris Hill wrote:
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > May I suggest the following "KISS" outcome for APRS in VK:
>> >
>> >
>> > 1.  Mobiles set path to "APRS v WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2"
>> >
>> > 2.  Home users set path to "APRS v WIDE3-3"
>> >
>
> Bob Said
>
>> Boy was I wrong.  I just zoomed on the first call I saw and found 
>> that even Adelade is probably just about optimally loaded and cannot 
>> afford much coming in from say Melbourne without having some impact 
>> on throughput.  I see 50 stations within 50 miles of Adelade and that 
>> is about as high as you want to go without losing reliability for 
>> small trackers.
>>
>> Then I zoomed in on Melbourne and see that it is as dense as some of 
>> our highest density cities in the USA!  We use WIDE2-2 in those 
>> areas... (see MAP on 
>> http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/fix14439.html
>>
>> Seeing these maps, I now am convinced that you are on the right track 
>> to implement the New-N paradigm measures to help improve the 
>> reliability of local area APRS.  And since these population densities 
>> seem quite well focused with big gaps inbetween, then it does make 
>> sense to limit the WIDEn-N hops so that mobiles in one area are not 
>> QRMING long distances away to the other areas...
>>
>> Great work!
>> Bob, Wb4APR
>>
>
>
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