<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<font face="Arial">I'm a slow learner, ticked the wrong box again.
Ho hum!</font><br>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table class="moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Subject:
</th>
<td>Re: [OZAPRS] Fwd: Re: Foundation and RF APRS new thread</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Date: </th>
<td>Sat, 21 Dec 2019 16:24:49 +1100</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">From: </th>
<td>vk2tv <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vk2tv@exemail.com.au"><vk2tv@exemail.com.au></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">To: </th>
<td>Carlos PECO BERROCAL <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:carlos.peco@gmail.com"><carlos.peco@gmail.com></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<font face="Arial">Hi Carlos,<br>
<br>
I got my information from here </font><br>
<font face="Arial"><a
href="https://rsgb.org/main/operating/licensing-novs-visitors/international-prefixes/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://rsgb.org/main/operating/licensing-novs-visitors/international-prefixes/</a><br>
<br>
and here <br>
</font><font face="Arial"><a href="https://www.qrz.com/atlas"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.qrz.com/atlas </a>(enter
Panama in the search box)<br>
<br>
I did search for a full example of a 3F callsign but didn't find
one.<br>
<br>
You could be right but I think that a permanent and sensible
solution to the Foundation callsign debacle is the preferred
route to take. <br>
<br>
I suggested VI and you suggest AX but in retrospect I see a
problem with both of them in that if any amateur can use VI or
AX for special occasions, logically the entire VI or AX blocks
are already be "allocated". <br>
<br>
I've been messing about looking for a temporary solution for
Jack and using an ALIAS instead of a callsign seems to tick all
the boxes.<br>
<br>
1. In an instance of xastir I used the ALIAS VKFTVZ as the
station "callsign" . In the "Comment" box I put "vk2tv APRS
test" (beacon text in other systems)<br>
2. I created a passcode for the ALIAS, VKFTVZ and entered that
in the interface control box of xastir<br>
3. I was able to send my normal xastir instance on another
machine a message and from that machine I sent a reply. All
good.<br>
4. aprs.fi shows the ALIAS and the beacon that was sent ... </font><font
face="Arial"><font size="+3"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: nowrap;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; display: inline !important; float: none;">2019-12-21
16:03:42 AEDT:<span> </span></span><b style="box-sizing:
border-box; font-weight: 700; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: nowrap; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style:
initial; text-decoration-color: initial;"><a
href="https://aprs.fi/?c=raw&limit=&call=VKFTVZ"
style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color:
transparent; color: rgb(0, 0, 255); text-decoration: none;
cursor: pointer; outline-style: none;"
moz-do-not-send="true">VKFTVZ</a></b></font><span
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana, Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: nowrap; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial;
text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline !important;
float: none;"><font size="+1">>APX215,TCPIP*,qAC,T2TAS:=3102.12S/15252.72E`vk2tv APRS test<br>
5. The use of an ALIAS (maximum of 6 characters to met the
AZ25 spec) should pass unimpeded through Igates. And FWIW,
an ALIAS can have an SSID, just like a callsign can.<br>
</font><br>
<font size="+1">On the surface this method seems to solve
Jack's problem of using a callsign (ALIAS, actually) that
resembles his real callsign</font>, <font size="+1">sends
his real callsign in the beacon, satisfies aprs.fi,<br>
lets him appear on aprs.fi, and meet his licencing
obligations. <br>
<br>
What more could he want except for the ACMA to sort of the
callsign debacle they created?<br>
<br>
HTH<br>
Ray vk2tv<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/12/19 2:56 pm, Carlos PECO
BERROCAL wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJqR=erSATvm3UFdhihg77mDVBW1X=jy+2so5g21-pZP+vPKTA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
hi Ray,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So I looked into the Panama callsigns... they all have a
number after the prefix.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So an alphanumeric combination like 3FABC does not match
any amateur callsign anywhere in the world. Happy to be proven
wrong.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Foundation calls would be better using a different prefix,
like AX. They would attract more attention from hams overseas.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>cheers</div>
<div>Carlos VK1EA</div>
<div><br>
<br>
On Saturday, December 21, 2019, vk2tv <<a
href="mailto:vk2tv@exemail.com.au" moz-do-not-send="true">vk2tv@exemail.com.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div> <font face="Arial">Ticked the wrong box and sent this
only to Norm.</font><br>
<div><br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap"
align="RIGHT">Subject: </th>
<td>Re: [OZAPRS] Foundation and RF APRS new thread</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap"
align="RIGHT">Date: </th>
<td>Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:49:08 +1100</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap"
align="RIGHT">From: </th>
<td>vk2tv <a href="mailto:vk2tv@exemail.com.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><vk2tv@exemail.com.au></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap"
align="RIGHT">To: </th>
<td>Norm McMillan <a
href="mailto:vk3xci@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><vk3xci@gmail.com></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<font face="Arial">Given the international use of APRS,
aprs-is and sites like <a href="http://aprs.fi"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aprs.fi</a>,
a 3F callsign has the potential to cause a problem.
Would you like YOUR callsign appearing on <a
href="http://aprs.fi" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">aprs.fi</a> if you didn't
initiate it? We shouldn't be trying to fix one problem
by creating other problems.<br>
<br>
I don't see having the callsign as an object as
problematic, per se, but the aprs-is authorisation to
allow a station to send an object is based on the
callsign (without SSID) that's set in the config file
(certainly for xastir and Direwolf). Whilst that
config file "might" accept a callsign longer than 6
characters, and so might <a href="http://aprs.is"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aprs.is</a>
we eventually hit the AX25 specification conflict that
will probably drop an improperly formatted source
station address - a letter appearing in the numerical
-only SSID field -, or maybe corrupt the callsign
therein. <br>
<br>
</font>Australian amateurs can use vk, vi or ax, under
prescribed circumstances so maybe something along the
lines of an extension of the (say) VI prefix to allow
Foundation licencees to use it would be a simple
solution - Jack could become VI3JTS, as an example.
Perhaps the use of a data friendly callsign could be
optional for stations who need it. I'm just tossing
ideas into the air, we need to start somewhere to
resolve the mess.<br>
<br>
Can anyone confirm/deny that the WIA is actually working
with the ACMA on a solution, or is everyone waiting for
somebody else to start the ball rolling? Just curious.
If the ball isn't already rolling, maybe we from this
group should start its journey. Maybe Jack should
contact his local federal member of parliament, asking
him to find out why the ACMA permitted the use of data
by Foundation licencees but kept a callsign structure
that prevents that happening in practice. Take it up
with the Anti-Discrimination Commissioner, there must be
a disabled Foundation licencee who wants to use
Packet/APRS but can't because the callsign structure
discriminates against him/her. Play it for all it's
worth. We have both the power and the right to make a
noise about this and we shouldn't have to wait years for
a result. <br>
<br>
Soapbox safely stowed away ... for now<span><span>:-)</span></span><br>
<br>
Ray vk2tv<br>
<br>
<div>On 21/12/19 12:59 pm, Norm McMillan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hmmmm,</div>
<div>looks like all the nF... prefixes are
internationally allocated, is that going to cause
a problem?</div>
<div>The proper answer of course, is to get rid of
the 4 letter suffix, the numerical area id suffix,
and have a "callsign for life"</div>
<div>Like that's going to happen!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For now, I'll tell users to use nFxxx and put a
callsign in the comment line. It's all we've got
'till someone tell me different.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>norm vk3xci<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>norm vk3xci!<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 21,
2019 at 11:34 AM Josh <<a
href="mailto:vk2hff@vk2hff.ampr.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vk2hff@vk2hff.ampr.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Norm,<br>
<br>
On 21/12/2019 10:30 am, Norm McMillan wrote:<br>
> Someone with more knowledge than I might like
to comment on the<br>
> legality of both cases? I'm not an APRSdroid
user so I don't know if<br>
> it's possible to put a comment with a
callsign in APRSdroid.<br>
Yes, APRSdroid allows a custom comment but
defaults to the aprsdroid URL<br>
if no comment is provided.<br>
Regarding legality, there is no requirement to
identify yourself on<br>
every transmission.<br>
And your ID doesn't have to be sent via AX.25 -
sending your full<br>
callsign via CW (or voice etc) once every 10
minutes would fulfill the<br>
requirement, providing it was sent on the same
frequency as your APRS<br>
transmissions - not that I'd recommend this
option.<br>
<br>
Including your callsign in your APRS beacon
comment field would<br>
obviously also meet the requirement. From ACMA's
perspective your APRS<br>
object name does not have to match your callsign -
that's just our<br>
convention for position beacons.<br>
><br>
> Another question... would a 3F*** call be
gated IS to RF? Guess it<br>
> depends on the software etc.<br>
><br>
That comes down to each individual igate's
configuration.<br>
As an example, mine won't gate any objects from IS
to RF except for<br>
messages for nearby stations recently heard
directly via RF, or WXSVR-AU<br>
alerts within my igate's area. The callsign makes
no difference.<br>
<br>
IMO the best approach for F calls is to set their
callsign field to<br>
nFxxx, and include their full callsign in the
comment field.<br>
<br>
- Josh VK2HFF<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
OZAPRS mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">OZAPRS@aprs.net.au</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.aprs.net.au/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ozaprs</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
OZAPRS mailing list
<a href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">OZAPRS@aprs.net.au</a>
<a href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.aprs.net.au/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/ozaprs</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
OZAPRS mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OZAPRS@aprs.net.au" moz-do-not-send="true">OZAPRS@aprs.net.au</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</body>
</html>