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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thanks for your posting, Peter. It set
me scouring for information about the arrangements in Europe. USA
uses <a href="http://www.n0trq.com/hf-packet-frequencies">frequencies</a>
incompatible with our 40m band plan so interoperability can be
ruled out.<br>
<br>
What I found is that in Europe there is a standard APRS 300bps FSK
frequency of <a
href="http://robust-packet.net/tipsandtricks/HF-APRS-Frequency-Calculation.pdf">7047.6
kHz USB</a> (=7051 LSB). This results in a centre frequency of <font
color="#ff0000">7049.3</font>. Generally, unattended operation
is encouraged in the segment from 7047 to 7050 for narrowband
digital modes.<br>
<br>
Robust Packet Radio 8-tone PSK (requiring a special <a
href="http://www.radios.net.au/pactor-email-via-radio-/modems/scs-tracker-/-dsp-tnc-not-for-email-/prod_873.html">SCS
TNC</a>) is used on <a
href="http://robust-packet.net/Robust-Packet-Network-Manual.pdf">7047.3
kHz USB</a> (with audio tone centre 1500 Hz). This results in a
centre frequency of <font color="#ff0000">7048.8</font>.<br>
<br>
Experimental PSK63, MFSK16 and similar modes for APRS are centred
on <font color="#ff0000">7049.7</font> kHz. These are available
through the Cross Country Wireless program <a
href="http://www.crosscountrywireless.net/aprs_messenger.htm">APRS
Messenger</a> as well as <a
href="http://hackaday.com/2013/11/14/long-distance-high-frequency-aprs-tracking-using-the-freetrak63/">standalone
trackers</a>.<br>
<br>
Now, it is easy to see how these have been chosen. They are
exactly 3.1 MHz lower than the same modes on the 30m band. The
allocations allow all modes to be operated independently. In VK, a
<a href="http://www.vkcw.net/7050">CW calling frequency</a> has
recently been established on 7050. There is enough of a guard band
between 7050 and the suggested APRS FSK300 frequency as narrow
filters are normally used.<br>
<br>
These would appear to be good candidate frequencies for VK and
perhaps ZL.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Gerard - VK2IO<br>
<br>
On 18/12/2015 9:19 AM, Peter VK3TBN wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:BY2PR1201MB1030DED4BC34BC9285D4D97B99E00@BY2PR1201MB1030.namprd12.prod.outlook.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div>Hi,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I note that USA have their APRS gateways around the 7.100 MHz
area... Europe is lower like ours</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>North America</div>
<div>7.0865 general 40 packet</div>
<div>7.1010 USB HF skip net robust packet</div>
<div>7.1035 LSB HF skip net bbs to bbs</div>
<div>7.1030 USB 40mRP network</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Europe </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>7.0473 USB </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); ">Would be nice to have a global system...
Particularly for Boats</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); "><br>
</span></div>
<div>Maybe we just stay we're we are as region 3 until we get a
cross region agreement if that's what we want?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Pete</div>
<div><br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>
On Dec 18, 2015, at 2:04 AM, "Gerard Hill" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vk2io@amsat.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vk2io@amsat.org">vk2io@amsat.org</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Matthew,<br>
<br>
That is the bandplan for ITU Region 3 (our region) and as
you say it has narrowband modes from 7030 to 7040 unlike the
WIA bandplan that has CW within this segment. It would be
worth clarifying this with the WIA TAC (Technical Advisory
Committee). I expect they'll say it is for harmonisation
with IARU <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.iaru-r1.org/index.php/documents/Documents/HF/IARU-Region-1-HF-Bandplan--2014/">Region
1</a> and <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.iaru-r2.org/documents/explorer/files/Plan%20de%20bandas%20%7C%20Band-plan/R2%20Band%20Plan%202013.pdf">Region
2</a> that have CW up to 7040 then narrowband digital
modes from 7040 to 7050 then wideband digital modes (and
SSB) from 7050 to 7060.<br>
<br>
As for increasing awareness of the frequency change,
promotion on this mailing list, WIA broadcasts as well as
the outlets you mention would go a long way towards
saturation coverage. Advising users of the 7040-7050 segment
about the change in mode will be a step towards seeing it
freed for digital modes. I know of one daily net that has
already moved from 7045 to a frequency in the SSB segment.
There are more - it just takes time.<br>
<br>
Considering our new bandplan, are there other 40m APRS users
around the world that we could harmonise with?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Gerard - VK2IO<br>
<br>
On 16/12/2015 11:29 PM, Matthew Cook wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAE+2d_0+Ehp9tiQT5FsxojRqKWm9hfBjHLvZia9_LBp48g3yNg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">In reading all three docs it appears that the
latest WIA 40m band plan has followed the ITU Narrow Band
(NB) DX recommendation starting at 7.040, which still has
NB modes listed down to 7.030. I wonder why, this seems
half baked at first glance?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The 40m APRS frequency has been 7.036kHz (group C
tones) for as long as I can remember.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Perhaps some clarification from the WIA can be sought
through the TAC's as to when/why was this changed. I
know my VK5 TAC well and am happy to discuss. I'm sure
there will be further changes to the ITU band plans as
of the recent meeting of the minds. For the time being
it seems sensible to sit tight, ask a few questions and
see what happens. The band plans are fluid as was
recently demonstrated with the 2m and 70cm bandplans
having been straightened out and previous decisions
reversed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If the frequency needs to change, then this will need
to include a national awareness campaign, so information
in AR, vklogger, faceborg etc in an attempt to get the
new frequency out there. Otherwise those in the know
will move, but those that haven't heard will simply
think it's closed down... which would be sad. There are
a number of rag chewers in the 7.040-7.050 region using
SSB already, so moving and camping in there will lead to
a few cross words.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just my 0.022c worth inc GST and since I've got a
vested interest in helping said Ham in the Riverland get
Larry's gate going again on 40m and I hate reprogramming
8525/8528 Codans with a passion !</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>73</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Matthew</div>
<div>VK5ZM</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 16 December 2015 at 02:20,
Gerard Hill <span dir="ltr">
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vk2io@amsat.org" target="_blank">vk2io@amsat.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Interesting history on the origins of 7036 LSB
for APRS. I tend to quote dial frequencies for the
"standard" 1600/1800 Hz tones. The dial
frequencies for the six other tone pairs in common
use are available here:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://aprs.net.au/hf/hf-aprs-frequencies"
target="_blank">
http://aprs.net.au/hf/hf-aprs-frequencies</a><br>
<br>
When it comes to looking for a spare slot in the
band its the centre frequency that is of interest.
This is 1700 Hz less than the dial frequency.
Looking at the group archives, there was a lot of
discussion in Oct 2009 about moving away from 7036
to avoid QRM. We never did move :) Now we'll have
to.<br>
<br>
The current <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.nzart.org.nz/info/technical/hf-band-usage/"
target="_blank">
ZL bandplan</a> has not changed since 2013. The
segments in 40m are the same as the old VK
bandplan. Its probably due for a review to fall in
line with the latest IARU Region 3 bandplan:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://iaru-r3.org/?dl_id=1">http://iaru-r3.org/?dl_id=1</a><br>
In VK we should follow the VK bandplan (as
released in Sep 2015). Its annoying to have to
change frequency, but its going to happen so we
might as well get established as soon as we can
when there is more choice of frequencies. Liz
VK2XSE, I'm in the same boat and will have to
reprogram radios - we all will. Now to work out
what the frequency should be...<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Gerard - VK2IO<span class=""><br>
<br>
On 14/12/2015 9:19 PM, Scott Evans wrote:<br>
</span></div>
<span class="">
<blockquote type="cite">The History of HF APRS on
40m stems from our friends in ZL. That was the
frequency that suited best for their local
coverage and so I just setup there. Now I'm not
up to speed with the ZL band plan (or if there
is one) but I do recall a problem with the use
of digital modes higher up the band. Personally
I'd prefer to stay on the frequency I'm on
purely for the fact that it's a known frequency
for use in VK/ZL
<br>
<br>
back in the archives of this mailing list you
will find a bit of chatter around 2007/2008 for
reestablishing either a 40m or 20m network as an
alternate for VK standard license class as they
don't have permission to operate on WARC bands.
After quite a bit of testing between the two
bands it was settled that 40m was the better of
the two at that time.
<br>
<br>
just one thing to remember, depending on the
tone pair of your HF TNC/Tracker most use
1600/1800Hz but some older gear (like the
Pakratt PK-232) uses 2110/2310Hz this affects
your dial frequency. The reference to 7.036 LSB
is for 1600/1800Hz tones so your dial frequency
is 7.036+/- and if you are using 2110/2310Hz
like me, the dial frequency is 7.036510 LSB
(2110/2310Hz)
<br>
<br>
Now I'm not going to confuse this any further by
quoting center frequencies like is done with
pactor! :D
<br>
</blockquote>
</span></div>
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