[OZAPRS] On possibilities with short HF whips

Glen English VK1XX glenlist at pacificmedia.com.au
Fri Dec 8 17:26:29 AEDT 2017


what are the recommendations and user practical limits for Melbourne ? 
(trams)

Canberra here you'll  get into trouble ~ 4m

I had the loop on my vehicle when I was driving in Melbourne a fair bit....

I once hit a tram line with my car roof antenna heatshrink insulated 
helical at Racecourse Road, Kensington... it made a huge pop in the 
receiver but otherwise no damage...




On 8/12/2017 3:07 PM, Matthew Cook wrote:
> This is also worth considering when looking at larger HF whips.
>
> http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/business-industry/heavy-vehicles/road-access/restricted-access-vehicles/4-6m-high.html
>
> Each state has their own variations to the above, nationally 
> un-restricted is 4.3m.
>
> 73
>
> Matthew
> VK5ZM
>
> On 8 December 2017 at 14:03, Graeme <graeme at abrona.com.au 
> <mailto:graeme at abrona.com.au>> wrote:
>
>     Thanks Glen.
>
>     Obviously my decision against buying a 2.2m centre loaded 40m whip
>     because it would bend in the wind to its disadvantage in favour of
>     a base loaded 1.4m whip wasn't a good one for multiple reasons.
>
>     Graeme 2HFG
>
>     -----Original Message----- From: Glen English VK1XX
>     Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 10:19 AM
>     To: ozaprs at aprs.net.au <mailto:ozaprs at aprs.net.au>
>     Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] On possibilities with short HF whips
>
>
>     Ran some NR predictions for 10 MHz for Brisbane Sydney, and 7 and 3.5
>
>     and also some more details calcs on the Diamond 1.4m logn base
>     loaded whip
>
>     turns out to be ~ 3% efficiency.
>
>     for the -15dBi TX terminal (1.4m base loaded whip with suboptimal
>     loading Q)
>
>     yep,  in daytime, single hop 750-1200km , 100W into the antenna,
>     expect
>     around 15dB SNR for the 300 baud modem given a good receiver
>     antenna and
>     setup...with a modem like DireWolf that can cope with frequency
>     variations. Be sure you know your radio frequency offset before
>     you start.
>
>     with same length whip on 7 MHz, expect about 300-700km in
>     daylight, but
>     not much use outside that time and distance.
>
>     All of this means is for 300 baud FSK packet mode and 100W, the
>     mode is
>     unsuitable for low efficiency mobile antennas like base loaded short
>     whips. (3% or less efficiency at 10 MHz, 2% at 7 MHz etc)
>
>     All this points to: (in my opinion) needing  a >=2.2m long whip
>     instead
>     of a 1.4m long whip.
>     and  an antenna with a non base loaded structure (for 300 baud packet)
>
>     Get your antenna efficiency up to 10% at 7 MHz and then now you
>     have an
>     idea setup 24 hours, single freq .... 10 MHz almost good enough except
>     for the wee hours 2am-sunrise when you will be asleep anyway.
>
>     So the lesson here, 300 baud packet needs decent antenna efficiencies
>     mobile.
>     hence the need for a mode that does about 6dB better
>
>     sure we can do alot better than 6dB, but 6dB better mode is what is
>     required to work on the 1.4m base loaded whips.
>
>     Otherwise for 300 baud FSk packet, it needs to be teamed up with
>     antenna
>     efficiency >= 8%, implying  something with a feedpoint of around 2
>     ohms
>     Rr and not too lossy loading and matching... a whip of 2 meters
>     tall  at
>     10 MHz with continuous or 1/3 loaded structure. Base loaded structures
>     are the worst !
>
>     The longer 1.8m long CB helical whips are a bit hard to find these
>     days.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     g
>
>
>     On 7/12/2017 6:36 PM, Glen English VK1XX wrote:
>
>         ok
>
>
>         On 7/12/2017 6:24 PM, vk4tec at tech-software.net
>         <mailto:vk4tec at tech-software.net> wrote:
>
>             You are not telling me anything new
>
>             -----Original Message-----
>             From: OZAPRS [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au
>             <mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au>] On Behalf Of Glen
>             English VK1XX
>             Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 5:10 PM
>             To: ozaprs at aprs.net.au <mailto:ozaprs at aprs.net.au>
>             Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] Hf gates CD
>
>             base station 700-1500km away will hear you, but you wont
>             hear a station 50km away.
>
>
>             On 7/12/2017 5:57 PM, vk4tec at tech-software.net
>             <mailto:vk4tec at tech-software.net> wrote:
>
>                 Go for a walk
>
>                 -----Original Message-----
>                 From: OZAPRS [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au
>                 <mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au>] On Behalf Of Glen
>                 English VK1XX
>                 Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 4:55 PM
>                 To: ozaprs at aprs.net.au <mailto:ozaprs at aprs.net.au>
>                 Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] Hf gates CD
>
>                 tracker might well have CD but:
>
>                 1) Consider that in the mobile, you wont hear any
>                 stations less than the skip distance (unless they are
>                 10km away) . The daytime skip distance might be
>                 700km.... so anyone inside that distance you wont
>                 hear  cause the ionosphere wont support it..it wont
>                 support any angles higher than perhaps 45 degrees.
>
>                 The base station though will hear lots of
>                 transmissions from lots of stations >700km  to 1500km
>                 away, so there would be significant collision chance
>                 if the position update is too often. Maybe 10 minutes
>                 might be suitable. I dunno why people run..
>
>                 2) With a 5%  to 10%  efficiency mobile you wont hear
>                 too much unless the propagation is optimal...
>
>
>                 glen
>
>
>
>
>
>                 On 7/12/2017 5:41 PM, vk4tec at tech-software.net
>                 <mailto:vk4tec at tech-software.net> wrote:
>
>                     Blind ?
>
>                     Tracker has CD
>
>                     -----Original Message-----
>                     From: OZAPRS [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au
>                     <mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au>] On Behalf Of
>                     Glen English VK1XX
>                     Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 2:46 PM
>                     To: ozaprs at aprs.net.au <mailto:ozaprs at aprs.net.au>
>                     Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] Hf gates
>
>                     but how does this matter?
>
>                     You will  be transmitting on a frequency blind
>
>                     there will be receivers you cannot control
>
>                     There will be any number of propagation modes you
>                     cannot control...
>
>
>
>                     On 7/12/2017 3:34 PM, Andrew Rich wrote:
>
>                         Hi
>
>                         Can I get a list of hf gates on 10.147
>
>                         In my planning for the Xmas run
>
>                         Cheers
>
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