[OZAPRS] Are 4 x iGates in Sydney too many?
Justin Albury
justin at jacomms.com
Sun May 25 21:44:26 EST 2014
We are a bloody hard bunch to keep happy ;-)
So we all love to be able to log onto aprs.fi and see our gated beacons and track others like we do, but then when we hit a black spot with no digi or igate we are all thinking of ways to rectify this.
Goulburn and Highrange were both "black spots" along the highway until I install the digi's and a igate in Goulburn and everyone was happy, messaging works, weather warnings.... the whole bit. A few dup packet here and there is the least of or issues...... I log every single packet gated daily, the log looks long but the file size is small and is @ 1200 baud ......Im sure a few extra igates and some dup packets is not going to make the aprsis server melt to the ground ......maybe im wrong i dunno. What is good is to see the system getting use.....we would all hate to see it fade away like packet did....that would be sad.
Do we have a AU config standard??? do all the digi's and igates need to be updated??? this is prob a good question.
love our hobby....dont shoot it down......but lets make it work the best we can with each others help!
'73
VK2HJA
Justin Albury
J Albury Communications
justin at jacomms.com
0417246791
-----Original Message-----
From: ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au] On Behalf Of vk2ycj at bravo.net.au
Sent: Sunday, 25 May 2014 8:19 PM
To: Australian APRS Users
Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] Are 4 x iGates in Sydney too many?
Thanks Ray,
The capture effect of FM and the free for all that happens on a VHF simplex channel is probably difficult to overcome.
Thanks for the description Ray.
Jamie VK2YCJ
> Guys and Gals,
>
> Take a look at recommended paths and you'll see why multiple digis are
> retransmitting a station.
>
> A mobile with WIDE1-1 WIDE2-1 will have two hops. Most, if not all,
> digis respond to WIDE1-1, so most digis will retransmit a WIDE1-1
> packet for another hop (to any other digis that hears it) and that
> (those) digis will use the WIDE2-1 part of the path. A path of WIDE1-1
> WIDE2-2 will have three hops, extending the spread to another ring of
> digis and potentially more igates.
>
> The reason for the closest igate not always being the one that appears
> on aprs.fi (et al) is that the nearest igate might be clobbered by
> another station that is stronger than the local digi - think FM
> capture effect - OR the received packet might be mangled in some way
> through collisions, and "lost", whilst a distant igate will receive a
> valid signal via its local digi and deal with it appropriately.
>
> APRS is a bit (a lot!) of a free-for-all for channel access compared
> with connected mode packet where stations hold back transmitting, as
> defined by the channel access parameters of DWAIT, Slottime and
> Ppersistence.
>
> A situation I see reasonably often is, I can be gating a station
> that's using vk2rcn-1 just fine, sending numerous packets to aprs-is
> and then, out of the blue a packet will go via a couple more digis to
> be gated by a station in Tamworth. I'm in Kempsey. Obviously my rx has
> been clobbered by vk2rdo-3, vk2rmy-1 or vk2jub-3 and I lost the packet.
>
> Ray vk2tv
>
> On 25/05/14 17:12, vk2ycj at bravo.net.au wrote:
>> Gary,
>>
>> Interesting yes. I can see a mobile station in Newcastle going to
>> VK2RTZ-1 then to VK2RTG-5 rather than via our local iGate VK2ZEN-5
>>
>> VK2ZEN-5 looks like it's okay and working.
>>
>> Another mobile up the valley is going via VK2RTZ-1 and then to iGate
>> VK2ZEN-5
>>
>> Maybe it's a difficult job to get to site and set the routing table
>> on the
>> VK2RTZ-5 digipeater if changes are needed.
>>
>> Can the routing tables be set remotely via the 145.175 access
>> frequency OR can it only be done with a PC and cable onsite ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jamie VK2YCJ
>>
>>
>>
>>> Maybe the "path police" should be looking at some of the digi's
>>> around the place.
>>>
>>> I wonder why I see traffic from sugarloaf on highrange being digi'd
>>> ? I would have thought there are closer igates that the path should
>>> be set (& honoured) that highrange wouldn't digi this stuff ? Maybe
>>> its highrange at fault ?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 25/05/14 15:20, vk2ycj at bravo.net.au wrote:
>>>> G'day,
>>>>
>>>> I am thinking about using a hand-held 2m rig like a UV-5R as a low
>>>> power "fill in" digipeater for a small country town ?
>>>>
>>>> I drive to Dungog from Newcastle (80Km by road north of Newcastle)
>>>> 4-5 days per week and the APRS coverage is poor or non-existent.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was considering two options:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Putting a UV-5R hand-held radio on a hill near Dungog as a "fill
>>>> in"
>>>> digipeater running 1-2 watts and solar powered. The hill is line
>>>> of sight to the main digipeater on the Sugarloaf Range in
>>>> Newcastle.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Putting an Alinco DR-135T (with Argent Data card T2-135) running
>>>> 20 watts and not solar powered. The boys at Goulburn NSW have
>>>> installed two of these recently with good results.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can someone please comment on the suitability or stupidity of the
>>>> above two options ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Jamie VK2YCJ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have been looking at the load on one server in the rotation,
>>>>> which is about to move hosting into one of my racks... which is
>>>>> why previously I said there was no issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do see some issues about the place, with a few WIDE3* and a few
>>>>> NOGATE. I would have thought a NOGATE should also include NO-DIGI,
>>>>> but its seems maybe I have the wrong assumption.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe we do need someone to have a look at some of the paths being
>>>>> used and clean them up.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would have thought its best to try and keep RF clear so more can
>>>>> be handle without drama.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>> vk2zbb/vk2lv
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25/05/14 11:50, Scott Evans wrote:
>>>>>> From a T2 perspective there's no issue! If you're using
>>>>>> aunz.aprs2.net rotate the load balancing is automatically taken
>>>>>> care of, however if you have set up a static server and if
>>>>>> everyone else had done similar then maybe a problem would exist!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 25, 2014 11:32:59 AM GMT+10:00, Liz VK2XSE
>>>>>> <edodd at billiau.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> QTR Thu, 22 May 2014 21:47:13 +1000 Ian Mills QTC
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've noticed we now have at least 4 x iGates in Sydney,
>>>>>> I would
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> thought that's too many and may be adding extra loads
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> sever as
>>>>>> they all gate the same traffic?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ian vk2him
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The guys in the US, who have more experience in handling
>>>>>> large traffic
>>>>>> volumes, seem to whinge far more about excessive
>>>>>> digipeating than
>>>>>> excessive iGating.
>>>>>> I did notice on my last trip to Wollongong that my packets
>>>>>> were being
>>>>>> spread far and wide, and often gated from Newcastle after
>>>>>> being picked
>>>>>> up by VK2AMW-1. (WIDE2-2)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The questions can best be answered by experimentation.
>>>>>> There is apparently a need for better RF coverage in Sydney.
>>>>>> How
>>>>>> much
>>>>>> redundancy is required in the iGating system could be explored
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> deliberately turning off internet connectivity at one or
>>>>>> more of the
>>>>>> Sydney iGates.
>>>>>> Sydney users would need to know when these changes were
>>>>>> made, and then
>>>>>> comment on negative and positive aspects of the changes.
>>>>>> We would also need to know how many hops people are using
>>>>>> in their
>>>>>> transmissions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And is there any information from the APRS-IS server
>>>>>> operators about
>>>>>> network load?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>> Liz
>>>>>> VK2XSE
>>>>>> who hopes not to be using APRS in Sinny, 15 years living
>>>>>> there was
>>>>>> enough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> -------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OZAPRS mailing list
>>>>>> OZAPRS at aprs.net.au
>>>>>> http://lists.aprs.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozaprs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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