[OZAPRS] Setting up TT4 Tx on 2m

David and Justine Olsen davejust at bigpond.net.au
Fri Feb 19 09:58:36 EST 2010


I am afraid preemphasis and deemphasis are beyond my present  
knowledge :-)

David


On 19 Feb 2010, at 08:38, Richard Hoskin wrote:

> Ray / All,
>
> Several years I did some extensive testing on the effects of  
> deemphasis on received AX25 signals at APRS digipeaters.
>
> I found that the digipeaters reception and decoding of data worked  
> best (1 to 2 db better) when the deemphasis was bypassed. This was  
> the case for both preephasised and non-preephasised transmitted  
> signals. This is partly explained by the fact that most TNC  
> (especially the MFJs) require the high tone of the received audio  
> to be louder than the low tone for correct decoding. Especially for  
> weak signals.
>
> I also looked at the output of the Kenwood D7 & D700 and found that  
> they only used a 3db per octave preephasised / deemphasis on the  
> data TX / RX.
>
> All VK3 digipeaters have been modified to bypass the preephasised /  
> deemphasis to obtain the better receive performance. The other  
> advantage of this is that we bypassed the audio volume control and  
> squelch circuitry which makes the digi on the hill less prone to  
> accidentally adjustments.
>
> Cheers
> Richard
> VK3JFK
>
>
> From: ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au [mailto:ozaprs- 
> bounces at aprs.net.au] On Behalf Of Ray Wells
> Sent: Thursday, 18 February 2010 1:15 PM
> To: Australian APRS Users
> Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] Setting up TT4 Tx on 2m
>
> David/All,
>
> I'm not suggesting your problem is tone level related but failure  
> to grasp the following is arguably responsible for more TNC decode  
> issues than any other cause.
>
> The need for "twist" adjustment depends on the radio hardware  
> involved so a brief discussion is probably in order.
>
> The "norm" for an FM/PM radio is to apply 6dB (x2) per octave of  
> preemphasis in the transmitter. For packet, this results in the  
> high tone (2200Hz) having twice (near enough) the deviation as the  
> low tone (1200). In the receiver deemphasis is applied which  
> restores the audio to a "flat" condition, i.e. both tones going to  
> the TNC have the same level.
>
> If TNC audio is fed into the microphone socket you can depend on  
> 6dB per octave preemphasis. However, if the TNC audio is fed in  
> further down the tx audio chain, such as the audio injection point  
> for tone signalling, preemphasis will not be applied in the tx and  
> should be applied externally - with twist, in the case of the TT4.
>
> Going to the receiver again, if it receives a signal without  
> preemphasis, it will still apply deemphasis (assuming audio is  
> taken after deemphasis), resulting in the high tone being just half  
> the level of the low tone when fed to the TNC. FSK demodulators  
> based on the the  exar pair 2206/2211 will not decode if the high  
> tone is lower in amplitude than the low tone, by even a very small  
> amount.
>
> If rx audio is taken from the demodulator in the radio, i.e. before  
> deemphasis, the preceding is not a problem because audio that is  
> transmitted "flat" will be decoded "flat".
>
> The exar chip set (found in genuine TNC2 TNC's)  is not disturbed  
> by high tone being considerably higher in amplitude than the low tone.
>
> In summary, every tx should employ preemphasis, regardless of it  
> being generated internally, or externally. That will eliminate any  
> decode problems in TNC's with finicky chip sets because high tone  
> will always be the same level as, or higher than, the low tone  
> coming out of the rx.
>
> David, is TXD 60 60mS or 600mS? Although TXD provides time for your  
> tx to stabilise before valid data is sent, it can also have an  
> impact on the remote rx in cases where muted audio is being used  
> for the TNC. There are some very sluggish receivers kicking about  
> and TXD needs to be long enough for that rx to unmute. My Icon  
> handheld scanner is pathetic in this regard, with the mute being so  
> slow that I can miss at least half of the digi beacon, even when  
> I'm at the digi site.
>
> Get that CRO working and save your hair, lest you should end up  
> like me :-)
>
> Ray vk2tv
>
>
>
> David and Justine Olsen wrote:
> I am presently running TxD of 60 and TXTWIST of 50. I've tried a  
> range of TXTWIST but none sound too different
> David
>
> On 18 Feb 2010, at 00:36, Scott Evans wrote:
>
>
>
> ABAUD is just the speed set for serial port 1 ... what TXDELAY are  
> you running? because depending on how quick you radio is you may  
> need to lengthen the delay a little, also check the TXTWIST setting  
> too, this controls the level between the 1200Hz & 2200Hz tones.
>
> On Wed, 2010-02-17 at 21:51 +1000, David and Justine Olsen wrote:
> ABAUD is set to 19200
>
>
> On 17 Feb 2010, at 21:37, Norm, VK3XCI wrote:
>
> > Sort of like 9600 baud?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 73 de Norm, VK3XCI
> > Mildura, Australia
> > The Wintersun City
> > QF15bt.
> >
> > David and Justine Olsen wrote:
> >> I've gone through all of the TT4 audio adjustments as explained in
> >> the help docs by listening on another set, but still no success  
> being
> >> received by any digis.
> >>
> >> One thing that has me curious, is the the squak from my Tx sounds
> >> nothing like those from others. The others are a deehdaaah kind of
> >> sound with two distinctly different tones ate the beginning and end
> >> tone, whereas mine is a sqaaaark :-) of mixed tones at the same  
> time.
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> VK4MDX
> >>
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> >>
> >>
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> -- 
> Scott Evans <scott at vk7hse.hobby-site.org>
>
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