[OZAPRS] European v USnewparadigmand pathlimiting +confusion....

Tue Nov 7 11:47:27 EST 2006

Hi Bob,

We're using KPC3+ (with 8.2 firmware) in VK6 (eg VK6KRB-2, VK6KSB-1)

Can I ask why ZONEn-N is defined in the UIFLOOD parameter?  Why don't we
just define it in the UITRACE parameter (along with WIDE), and then it is
traceable?

73,

Chris
vk6kch

-----Original Message-----
From: ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au] On
Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
Sent: Tuesday, 7 November 2006 8:28 AM
To: 'VK / ZL APRS Users'
Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] European v USnewparadigmand pathlimiting
+confusion....

> I think Bob summed it up here
> 
> >The SSn-N is for organizing APRS communications networks 
> >around specific organized communication areas and needs....

Yes, ZONES...

But zones based on any existing "organizational" boundaries
between communications organizations.  These Ham radio
communiations organizations usually match perfectly with the
government or public service sector that those volunteer
organizations support.  So again, don't tie them to geographic
boundaries necessarily, but to "comm" boundaries between those
areas who form-up as nets when emergency communications are
needed.

Again, we call them SSn-N because most ham radio emergency and
public service response nets and teams are organized at the
State level in the USA (or smaller for larger states), but if
you make sure that your zones match your COMMS organizations
coverage areas, then that is the intent of the SSn-N system.
EXAMPLE:  This is so that someone in the ZZZ zone can check in
with APRS to the ZZZ area net using ZZZ5-5 hops that is called
up every Tuesday night at 8 PM... For example, without QRMing
the entire country.

Lets say it takes 5 hops to go from one end of a zone to the
other.  Then users in the middle of that zone only need to use
the path of ZZZ3-3.  But those people on the edges may have to
use ZZZ5-5 to cover the zone.  But this is far different from
using WIDE5-5 which goes 5 hops in ALL directions instead of
just inward to the ZZZ zone.  That is the advantage of ZZZn-N
routing.  An order of magnitude reduction in QRM during these
events.

Now consider this!  Since the objective of ZZZ3-3 in the center,
or ZZZ5-5 from someone on the edge of the zone is to hit all the
digis in the zone, then there really is no difference between
ZZ3-3, or ZZZ5-5 or ZZZ7-7 for that matter.  It is still going
to hit every digi and that is the intent of this ZONE system.
So, for these ZONE wide nets, then ZZZ7-7 is no different.  That
too is the advantage of the ZZZn-N system, in that all QRM (if
abused) stays in the ZONE.

Again, ZZZ7-7 or 5-5 is NOT used routinely, it is only for
specific purposes within that ZONE.  But when it is used in a
ZONE WIDE net, then that is the only time that statiosn use the
larger hops above say ZZZ3-3 or so.  But it is OK to use ZZZ2-2
routinely if there is an advantage to it over WIDE2-2...

One LAST thing:

Since the New-N paradigm makes WIDEn-N traceable by using the
UITRACE parameter, this means that the ZZZn-N system used the
UIFLOOD parameter that is NOT traceable.  This is a
disadvantage.  But here is the workaround.  If UIFLOOD in the
DIGI's (KPC-3+ TNC's) is set to UIFLOOD ZZZ,30,ID then this
forces at least the LAST digi to insert its call.  Now then, if
the users use ZZZ1-1,ZZZn-N you get a packt that will arrive
everywhere with at least its FIRST and its LAST digi identified.
These two are most of what you need.  So a ZZZ1-1,ZZZ3-3 packet
would arrive like this:

ZZZ1-1,ZZZ3-3  as heard direct
DIGI1,ZZZ1*,ZZZ3-3 heard via DIGI1
DIGI1,ZZZ1,DIGI2*,ZZZ3-2 heard via DIGI1 and DIGI2
DIGI1,ZZZ1,DIGI3*,ZZZ3-1 heard via DIGI1 and ??? and DIGI3
DIGI1,ZZZ1,DIGI4,ZZZ3*   heard via DIGI1 and ???,??? and DIGI4

If you don't use the initial ZZZ1-1, you never get the first
digi identified...

Now, only the KPC-3+ TNC does this correctly,  If you use an
older KPC-3 with only version 8.2, then it can be made to work,
but takes some other settings at the digi.  I have no clue
whether Australia uses KPC3's anyway, so I will stop here until
I learn more...

Bob, WB4APR

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au 
> [mailto:ozaprs-bounces at aprs.net.au] On Behalf Of Andrew McDade
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 5:43 PM
> To: VK / ZL APRS Users
> Subject: Re: [OZAPRS] European v USnewparadigmand 
> pathlimiting +confusion....
> 
> Gday all,
> 
> I think Bob summed it up here
> 
> >The SSn-N is for organizing APRS
> >communications networks around specific organized
communication
> >areas and needs.  Not specifically geographic areas.
> 
> Perhaps referring to this as SSn-n is causing some confusion. 
> Id prefer it to be referred to as ZONEn-n. And be based on a 
> setup whereby the first 4 letters of the major centre 
> containing the zone ( regions ) igate is the path ie. MILDn-n 
> = Mildura. LINCn-n = Port Llincoln, GAMBn-n = Mt Gambier, and 
> so on. In Tasmania for example , instead of using TASn-n , 
> perhaps we should use HOBAn-n or NTASn-n or STASn-n, If this 
> zone covers the whole of a state then well be it. This will 
> at least then head towards developing some sort of 
> commonality between all states. 
> 
> And to summarize Dion ... 
> 
> This is the most important point !!
>  >think its these differences that need to be sorted, like 
> the confused  
> >operator in the next message asks, which path will work?  If 
> we could all  
> >settle on one configuration, this confusion would be 
> eliminated.  Mobiles  
> >that stay close to home would/could use SS1-1,SS2-2.  
> Roaming mobiles  
> >would use WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2..  I think the US example is 
> excellent, it  
> >simplifies everything.
> 
> Seems simple enough to me !!
> 
> Only point here is perhaps we should refer to this as ZONEn-n 
> instead of SSn-n. What to you think ?
> 
> Regards .. Andrew .. VK5EX
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> Ozaprs at aprs.net.au
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> 

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